Miniscan HPE fans

[Jamtastic3]

Hi BR.

 

I ask this because the fans in the Miniscan HPE's die after a while and it's costly to replace them. It's one of the biggest downfalls about Miniscan HPE's.

I've got CP Stagelight 300's and they seem to have what looks like a 12v DC fan cooling the lamp with a similar fan and lamp design as the Miniscans. These fixtures are essentially a Miniscan in a moving head body.

 

So could a Miniscan HPE take a 12v DC fan by some means of a transformer?

OR is there another type of fan that is reliable but cheaper?

 

It's just a wild suggestion really.

 

 

Cheers!

[csg]

Having just serviced 16 miniscan hpe's I know just where you are comming from!

 

Whilst it may be possible to find a dc fan with a high enough throughput, and one that is happy with the heat, I think you would find it difficult to fit a low voltage supply in there, miniscans are not exactly spaceous inside!

 

Of course, it is cheaper to get the fans from farnell / rs etc rather than pulsar, but im sure you realise that already.

 

thing that bugs me is the price of the condensor lens. somehow, the condensor lens which fits my amptown controlite heads ( 1200w hmi), which is slightly bigger, is 1/3rd of the price, and is far more robust???

[gyro_gearloose]

I'm not sure how the price of a fan and transformer will be less than the price of a 240 volt fan. And then you'll have to find somewhere to mount the transformer. Be careful not to block the airflow around the unit!

 

Have you looked at the fans available from RS, Farnell, etc? Papst make a huge range of fans so will certainly have something that will suit your lights. Make sure you at least match the airflow rates though. If the fan can't move enough air, everything will overheat. Farnell sell 240 volt Papst fans from £18 each.

 

Hope this helps

[niclights]

I'm guessing Jammie's point was that the 12v fans might be more tolerant of the heat, thus permanently solving the problem. After discussing this problem with PAPST some years ago I confirmed the existing 240v fans used were the highest spec available.

 

Even if the 12v version was more tolerant and did fit I also can see no way you could fit a transformer in.

[Brian]

Mains fans have nothing in them but coil windings. DC fans have electronics. Guess which will have the longer life?

[dmxtothemax]

I think it is more likely that it is a HEAT issue, so using a 12v wont help much.

You need to reduce the heat that the fan is or isnt tolerating

Maybe a fan that can tolerate higher ambient heat

perhaps a fan that moves more air, would help.

 

Hi BR.

 

I ask this because the fans in the Miniscan HPE's die after a while and it's costly to replace them. It's one of the biggest downfalls about Miniscan HPE's.

I've got CP Stagelight 300's and they seem to have what looks like a 12v DC fan cooling the lamp with a similar fan and lamp design as the Miniscans. These fixtures are essentially a Miniscan in a moving head body.

 

So could a Miniscan HPE take a 12v DC fan by some means of a transformer?

OR is there another type of fan that is reliable but cheaper?

 

It's just a wild suggestion really.

 

 

Cheers!

[Jamtastic3]

I think it is more likely that it is a HEAT issue, so using a 12v wont help much.

You need to reduce the heat that the fan is or isnt tolerating

Maybe a fan that can tolerate higher ambient heat

perhaps a fan that moves more air, would help.

 

But if this is the case of the heat issue (why Miniscan's have the fan they use), then how do the Stagelight's operate with a plastic DC fan next to the lamp, as these lights have no troubles both with fan life and heat and are of a similar design with lamp to fan relation to the Miniscans?

[KevinE]

Believe me, many scanners cook their DC fans to death; whether its dry bearings or loony commutation electronics.

 

In general though, DC fans are available in higher flow rates than the equivalent size in AC. A high flow rate DC fan takes quite a bit of current though, you'd need quite a decent low voltage supply from somewhere.

 

You could just experiment with different makes of fan, for example Sanyo Denki, Mitsubishi and Comair Rotron make some of the best fans if you're prepared to pay. Why not fit a selection of manufacturers so you can compare types for future reference?

[Jamtastic3]

Just a note but I checked the voltage on the Stagelight 300's and they use 24v DC fans. Something like this would be good in the Miniscan's if it were possible.....

[gyro_gearloose]

The reason plastic fans seem to survive in some units is probably down to the way they are used. If the fan is pulling cold (ish) air into the unit, it will have an easier life than if it were being used to pulling hot air out.

 

As for 12 volt fans moving more air than 240 volt fans? I find that very hard to believe. The amount of air a fan moves only depends on its diameter, the blade pitch, the number of blades, and the speed of the motor. It does not matter whether the motor is 12, 24, or 240 volt.

 

If I were looking for a better fan, I'd be looking for a 240 volt fan that moves more air than the ones currently in the lights. I wouldn't faff about trying to find and fit a transformeer and a 12/24 volt fan. Just accept the fact that your units aren't as well designed as they should have been.

[Jamtastic3]

Just accept the fact that your units aren't as well designed as they should have been.

 

 

But this is how Clay Paky have designed their fixtures and got their good reputation around the world...

 

However I do think its a shame there isn't another fan that can compensate the heat by a higher air flow rate and having a longer life span.

[greenalien]

The other thing to consider is noise - high output fans can be pretty loud, not perhaps a problem in a noisy club, but less than ideal on stage. My best advice would be to fit replacements that match the originals, but clean them more often! ;)

[niclights]

Cleaning has nothing to do with it. The fan failure is a well known problem with these units and it is a shame because otherwise they are excellent as Jammie says. I very much doubt that increasing flow (if actually possible) would help since they are an exhaust fan taking heat indirectly from the lamp and it is this heat that seems to be killing them. I did find PAPST very helpful and they were interested in providing a solution, but in order to do this they required the fan intake temperature, which I had no way of measuring.

[gyro_gearloose]

I very much doubt that increasing flow (if actually possible) would help since they are an exhaust fan taking heat indirectly from the lamp

Of course it will help. You'd be using more air to take away the same amount of heat, therefore the fan will not get as hot and should last longer.

 

Edit : If you are up for a bit of metal work, you could help the situation by cutting the vents out and replacing them with some of these. This should help with the airflow a little bit.

[KevinE]

As for 12 volt fans moving more air than 240 volt fans? I find that very hard to believe. The amount of air a fan moves only depends on its diameter, the blade pitch, the number of blades, and the speed of the motor. It does not matter whether the motor is 12, 24, or 240 volt.

 

I mean size for size...as per my post. You can get much higher-powered DC fans than the equivalent size in AC mains.

This is important since the OP was discussing the substitution of an AC fan by a DC one.