monitor mixing

[aaron_payne]

Hi all,

 

I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice.

 

For a few years ive been working on FOH sound. I'm now looking into learning monitor mixing via a second desk. I'm curious how to setup/control the outputs.

Im unsure as to what outputs to use on a desk (asides from aux out) and then how to add effects to these outputs (do I add a seprate effects processor to each output or is there an easier way) for different artists in a group if they require them. I am aware that a lot of digital desks have built in output processing, but what about analogue desks?

 

I am presuming from the logic in my head that when getting inputs I'd take the main from the stage and then send direct outs to the FOH mixer?. Can someone please correct me if I'm wrong?

 

thanks,

Aaron

[MarkPAman]

You get the inputs to the desk by splitting the signal, so that each desk can operate independently, without affecting the other. This can be (and often is) done with simple passive splits in the stage box, or transformers can be used. Some monitor desks have a split built into the desk - see Allen & Heath's desk.

 

Generally, we don't use effects that much for monitor world, but if we do they are run in the same way as FOH through a channel (or two) & can then be sent wherever they are needed. What you will want for each output is a graphic EQ.

 

You would use Aux outputs, though on a monitor desk they may be called monitor sends or something like that, have their master volume on a fader, and are usually all post fade.

 

I seem to have replied in reverse order! Hope it helps though!

[littlesteve]

some desks offer a flip so that the aux main output can be controlled via the groups rather than having to use fiddly pot sweeps as the main aux outs if that makes any sence!!!!

[mostlyharmless]

Generally the only effect you might use on mons is a gate on the kick drum if it sounds a little "boomy". However, as with anything in monitor world its all about communication with the artist as to what they want.

The more experienced the artist, the more they know what they want. Talk to them!

[jim b]

Generally the only effect you might use on mons is a gate on the kick drum if it sounds a little "boomy". However, as with anything in monitor world its all about communication with the artist as to what they want.

The more experienced the artist, the more they know what they want. Talk to them!

 

Generally there's no such thing as a general rule in monitors....

 

I've mixed for guys who want it to sound like a telephone in a cave and others who want it dry as a bone-and everything in between.

 

I've also mixed for drummers who go into a sociopathic rage if you gate their kit-it all depends on what the guys want and what you need to do to make it happen.

[Wilflet]

once you get into in ears alot of people start wanting reverbs

[Peter F]

Generally the only effect you might use on mons is a gate on the kick drum if it sounds a little "boomy".

 

Generally this is utter rubbish. Please "mostlyharmless" don't get upset by the harsh reply but I pay my mortgage doing monitors and I'm guessing you don't.

 

No-one ever refers to a gate as an effect. It is an insert. If you need to gate something it will be a specific, individual channel. You will insert a gate on that channel, so it will affect that channel. The signal goes out of that channel, is gated, it comes back into that channel.

 

In live sound, an effect will almost always be a send on an auxiliary and returned into a channel. Several channels will tend to go to the same effect. Take drums as an example; you would use the aux send for perhaps some snare and toms to a reverb, the output of the reverb will then come back into the desk on a channel. This then becomes a source to combine with your mix.

 

If the kick drum is a bit boomy use eq to sort it, better still get the drummer to tune his drum properly, failing that move the microphone around a bit, find a spot where it sounds right, change the mic maybe. I do loud bands, really loud bands, proper loud the monitors annoy front of house engineer bands. I haven't gated a kick for many years.

 

However, as with anything in monitor world its all about communication with the artist as to what they want.

The more experienced the artist, the more they know what they want. Talk to them!

 

Yep, you're right. Doing monitors is a bit of technical and a lot of psychology. It isn't about doing what the artist asks for, it is mostly about interpreting what they ask for and translating that into turning knobs on a desk to make that happen. Wander up onto stage whilst they're playing, look for thumbs up from them, happy nods and all that. If someone isn't comfortable ask them what's missing. It's all about making them happy in their own little space on stage and that applies if it's a pub or an arena, it's exactly the same, muso just needs to be comfortable so they can play in the band without thinking about what they are listening out for.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[mostlyharmless]

Hi Peter, although I agree with all your comments. I meant "effect" in the general sense in which I would include all inserts, effects units etc etc. I totally agree that a gate should be the last option, but its an example of pretty much the only time I've used an "effect" or insert in monitors (excluding in ears).

[aaron_payne]

Thanks all ,

really helpfull stuffs. its becoming slightly more clear now.

any other advice on the topic would be greatly appreciated

 

thanks,

aaron

[Rob_Beech]

It's a bit of an art to do properly, as most things are. Basic monitor mixing follows the simple rules but when you get into mixing lots and lots of different mixes at once, some as single wedges, some pairs or more wedges, some as side fill, some as drum fill, some as IEM either mono or stereo, then it does get much more taxing. You have to remember what each one sounds like. If you DO mix with people on IEM's then the first thing you need to buy is a set of good IEM's yourself (though you don't need the wireless bit, though it can help) Most dedicated monitor desks will have a wedge bus and a IEM bus.

 

When you do alot of it, for alot of people, with large numbers of mixes and weird and wonderful stuff, you do learn alot, and you do somehow (not sure how) get a feel as to what a person might want as they play / sing. I've been known to set up 14 wedge mixes, side fills and 3 sets of stereo IEM's and GUESS the lot and not have a single request all gig. Followed by compliments afterwards. It's not something you are expected to do on your first attempt, but as with everything it's a learning process.

[Wilflet]

I've been known to set up 14 wedge mixes, side fills and 3 sets of stereo IEM's and GUESS the lot and not have a single request all gig. Followed by compliments afterwards.

 

I do love it when that happens

[simonwest]

I'll be impressed if that happens in bourne rob...... ;-)

[chrispuxley]

It is worth noting that using IEMs is one of the few occasions when you might insert an effect over a mix output (other than a finaliser if that is your kind of thing).

That way you can add a natural reverb which is entirely dependant on what is going to that mix. It is horrible to have the return of a reverb sent to an in ear mix when it might result in a disproportionate amount of wet signal or irrelevant reverb tails from other sources sent to that effects unit.

 

Chris