Return to the Forbidden Planet...

[maxjones2000]

At school we are doing Return to the Forbidden Planet and I have been put in charge of lighting however, I have absolutley no idea of what sort of things to do for the songs. I have looked for videos on the Internet but cannot find any of the show where they are using moving lights. :/

 

we are using 6 mac250 entours along with 14ish fresnels, 8 profile spots and 12/16 parcans in a theatre that seats about 160. I don't know whether to use movement during the songs, the amount of flashing to use, colours/colour changes and gobo rotation and changes.

Any ideas please?? (I'm not sure as it is a musical and I don't want to take attention off the action on stage with some really 'good' lighting effects - it might look like a concert not a musical!!)

 

also, the parcans are in places where they are used for a wash during dialogue and I don't think we are moving them - so that rules out the traditional Rock n roll style of just flashing parcans.

Thanks for any advice!!

[tommulliner]

A quick search found;

This Thread

This thread

and this one

 

Try a search once in a while Max...

Good luck with the show!

[maxjones2000]

A quick search found;

This Thread

This thread

and this one

 

Try a search once in a while Max...

Good luck with the show!

 

haha sorry- I always think that stuf on here is gonna be much more accurate and reliable! Afterall it's from proper technicians :D

 

thankyou!

:)

[tom_the_LD]

I would highly recommend moving the PAR's to the back if you can and having them all as flashing backlight - if you can have 18 then you could have 3 blocks of 6 say with mirrored colours and maybe R G B in the middle three or something? Or if you have 16 then a 4 colour wash from the back? Really depends on the effect you're going for!

 

Planet isn't like a traditional musical in the sense that it's quite modern and it doesn't matter if the lighting is unsubtle.

 

One thing I will say for definite though - get some haze in there!

[maxjones2000]

I would highly recommend moving the PAR's to the back if you can and having them all as flashing backlight - if you can have 18 then you could have 3 blocks of 6 say with mirrored colours and maybe R G B in the middle three or something? Or if you have 16 then a 4 colour wash from the back? Really depends on the effect you're going for!

 

Planet isn't like a traditional musical in the sense that it's quite modern and it doesn't matter if the lighting is unsubtle.

 

One thing I will say for definite though - get some haze in there!

 

aha.. That sounds good - I like the 3 blocks of 6 idea.. That would give a brilliant rock n roll style. I'll see what I can do!

 

I had thought that about the play being reasonably modern so the lighting can be practically whatever you want, but I still think that a lot of movement during songs may look a bit overpowering (for example, having 4 macs pan/tiliting, flashing, colour scrolling and gobo scrolling for a song like Shes Not There or Great Balls of Fire may look a bit too much)

 

we have actually got a hazer (which will be going continuously throughout the show - I'm not convinced but that's not my decision) and we're hiring in a smoke machine to put in the airlock so that when someone comes through, a White fresnel behind the door comes on and captures the smoke which will look AMAZING (I've seen this idea before on the internet)!!

 

Anyway, I'll have a play during the rehearsal on Wednesday and see what looks best!

 

Thankyou so much for your help (Both of you)!!

 

Max

[tom_the_LD]

Does the hazer have DMX control?

 

Songs like "She's Not There" some movement is good - for example a fairly slow circle with a spread across the fixtures in a nice red could look quite good.

 

EDIT: SPAG

[maxjones2000]

Does the hazer have DMX control?

 

Songs like "She's Not There" some movement is good - for example a fairly slow circle with a spread across the fixtures in a nice red could look quite good.

 

EDIT: SPAG

 

Yeh the hazer does have DMX control, but the music teacher (he's in charge) wants it to give a continuous flow, just to pick up light beams :D

 

I was thinking some movement for She's Not There and the odd colour (as you said, mainly red)/gobo change here and there...

I thought for Great Balls of Fire (the full, proper version) I could have a fair bit of movement and frequent colour changes and a continous gobo scroll? The only thing is I cant seem to have flashing and pan/tilt going at the same time, so that rules out that good effect oh well, I'll make up for it!!

[paulears]

Nothing like the 6 Ps.

 

Anyway, I'll have a play during the rehearsal on Wednesday and see what looks best!

 

So much for design, then.

 

Proper planning prevents p1ss poor performance.

 

By this stage, you should have a good idea what you want to do for each section.

 

You also said

haha sorry- I always think that stuf on here is gonna be much more accurate and reliable! Afterall it's from proper technicians

So you won't be aware the search function looks at the posts on here - the stuff on here is more accurate and reliable, we hope!

 

The show, in it's original format where the cast are the actors, singers, dancers and musicians had a lighting style all of it's own - not really rock and roll at all - just great effects lighting with a bright feel. Plenty of gadgets and gizmos, plus as mentioned above, a lift door that could do silhouettes and look amazing. It's a musical play really - and the very style of the whole thing kind of sets the lighting into an old fashioned modernism - if you can work that one out. So it could, if this is how the director wants things, be very cliche ridden - sudden blackouts highlighting certain characters, or freeze frames - or even subtle stuff, shifting emphasis from place to place to make sure the audience are looking at the right bits at the right time. If you're going to use movers, then you can do lots with them static, changing from scene to scene, rather than random moving effects which might not work that well. They'll be great for maybe sweeping the audience during the polarity reversal section at the end, or washing the set with weird rotating gobos.

 

It is NOT (at least in my opinion) rock and roll, with a bit of dialogue. The words are HUGELY important, and the acting is more than just links between tunes. The entire piece has to come across as old fashioned and very tongue in cheek, remember it's primarily a parody. It's musical theatre, but not as most people know it.

 

If you wait for the rehearsal, then the best you are going to be able to do is not going to do justice to the equipment you have. You mentioned PARs - they are not going to be moved and just used for a wash? They're either in the right place with the right colours, or they're not. 6 movers and a pile of kit in perhaps wrong places screams YUK very loudly.

 

There is a big difference between designing lighting and using what somebody else installed for something totally different.

[maxjones2000]

Nothing like the 6 Ps.

 

Anyway, I'll have a play during the rehearsal on Wednesday and see what looks best!

 

So much for design, then.

 

Proper planning prevents p1ss poor performance.

 

By this stage, you should have a good idea what you want to do for each section.

 

 

Hi,

 

What I meant by this is that I have planned everything except the songs which the music teacher says I can busk (which I find a lot easier than running a song off a cuestack ) after pre-programming the desk with colours, gobos, positions, chases, effects etc. Also, the rehearsal on Wednesday isnt the dress/tech rehearsal - its just the day when the lighting we have hired is coming into school, so we are having a quick run-through after school where I can get programming and designing stuff :D

 

I like the idea of the movers sweeping the audience during the polarity reverse - Thanks! I had thought about using them during the acting either to do as you said, project wierd gobos (I dont know what gobos are in them yet, as I think we have some custom ones), or having them in a 'default' position, probably along the floor (they will be positioned on the floor), adding to the spaceship atmosphere.

 

You said about the PARs. I actually don't know whats happening about those, as I'm not in charge of where everything is being put - the teacher is, although I may be able to persuade him to move them.

 

Finally, between the rehearsal on Wednesday and the show, we will be focusing everything, putting in the correct gels and then he will tell me roughly what he wants for the acting parts.

 

Cheers!

[tom_the_LD]

So are you designing the lighting or not? As if you're not allowed to specify what goes where then surely you're not designing it? If I had asked to design and run lighting then got told "oh you've got to put that there and do this that way" I would quickly explain that I was asked to design and not be told what to do, and may not continue the role.

 

I personally don't like a gobo wheel scroll. Snapping between two gobos on the whell maybe, scrolling continuously - no.

 

You want DMX control of the haze - yes keep a constant flow but you want to be able to control how much of a flow there is. Think about it - some numbers are going to have a chorus of many people on stage dancing around which will cause a lot of airflow quickly fanning the haze away, whereas other scenes will have a lot less movement so the haze will sit around for longer.

 

Also - what desk are you using? As you say that you can't flashing movers and pan/tilt at the same time? Which you definitely can if you program it!

[Joe Bleasdale]

(which I find a lot easier than running a song off a cuestack :unsure: )

 

I run a huge cuelist for shows with complex songs all the time. I did when I was in school too. I don't know what desk you are using so can't comment too much on syntax and actual execution of the programming. But if your desk does multiple cuelists then I would have 1 main list for the scenes and transitions, then a cuelist for every song. As for effects and busking, that will also depend heavily on the desk you run the show with. I might do one thing on a Vector for example, but do it completely differently on a Hog then differently again on a Congo. It all depends on how much you know about the desk you are using to control your fixtures. Let us know and maybe we can be of more assistance

 

Best Regards,

[maxjones2000]

So are you designing the lighting or not? As if you're not allowed to specify what goes where then surely you're not designing it? If I had asked to design and run lighting then got told "oh you've got to put that there and do this that way" I would quickly explain that I was asked to design and not be told what to do, and may not continue the role.

 

I personally don't like a gobo wheel scroll. Snapping between two gobos on the whell maybe, scrolling continuously - no.

 

You want DMX control of the haze - yes keep a constant flow but you want to be able to control how much of a flow there is. Think about it - some numbers are going to have a chorus of many people on stage dancing around which will cause a lot of airflow quickly fanning the haze away, whereas other scenes will have a lot less movement so the haze will sit around for longer.

 

Also - what desk are you using? As you say that you can't flashing movers and pan/tilt at the same time? Which you definitely can if you program it!

 

hi

 

to be honest, I'm designing bits of it I think.. Basically, I design some stuff and then tomorrow I'm having a chat with the teacher and he'll tell be whether he likes it or not- I think... and will tell me roughly what he wants for the scenes. We might move some of the lights (while focussing) but I don't know and that's up to him as I'm not allowed yet.

and it turns out that the people who are installing the lighting will actually program most of the desk, with my assistance with saying what I want etc (I don't know why, as I'm capable of programming it but never mind!)

 

I am using an Avolites Pearl Tiger. I've tried on the simulator (and the actual desk) to have 2 playbacks going at once (like a chase and a movement) but for some reason it won't let me. Instead it just outputs the last fader I pushed up :/

anyway, I'll learn from the lighting people on wednesday when they come in..

 

I think we might be running the hazer of the desk, but it will be 'active' most of the time.

 

Cheers!! :unsure:

[niclights]

I've tried..to have 2 playbacks going at once (like a chase and a movement) but for some reason it won't let me. Instead it just outputs the last fader I pushed up

I don't know why, as I'm capable of programming it.....

:unsure:

It does what you programmed it to. Both myself and Emma explained how important it was that you understand record modes and the programmer. I suspect you either used record by fixture or were not careful about the values in the programmer.

[paulears]

What I fail to understand is why people put so much time and effort into selecting, rehearsing and making a show happen, spend lots of money on hiring kit, sourcing costumes etc and then expect their lighting op to be proficient in no time, with no experience, on equipment they've never used before. I'll be honest. My zillion years (almost) experience doesn't include AVO kit at all, the few times I've had to use them was playback only - NOT programming - and there is no way in the world I would be competent being given the desk just a few days before the show with minimal time to learn it.

 

The school must be crazy to expect this. Does the teacher know how to work an AVO? If not, what makes him believe you'll be able to do it proficiently?

 

This is the same teacher who has presumably selected the hire equipment and has the ridiculous idea that the hire company can programme it before they leave?

 

Plain stupid!

 

I know you probably don't have a choice, but you've been dropped in it from a great height!

[Joe Bleasdale]

What I fail to understand is why people put so much time and effort into selecting, rehearsing and making a show happen, spend lots of money on hiring kit, sourcing costumes etc and then expect their lighting op to be proficient in no time, with no experience, on equipment they've never used before. I'll be honest. My zillion years (almost) experience doesn't include AVO kit at all, the few times I've had to use them was playback only - NOT programming - and there is no way in the world I would be competent being given the desk just a few days before the show with minimal time to learn it.

 

The school must be crazy to expect this. Does the teacher know how to work an AVO? If not, what makes him believe you'll be able to do it proficiently?

 

This is the same teacher who has presumably selected the hire equipment and has the ridiculous idea that the hire company can programme it before they leave?

 

Plain stupid!

 

I know you probably don't have a choice, but you've been dropped in it from a great height!

 

Agreed!

 

This happens alot in schools. No offence to teachers, but they think lights just "come on" and I'm sorry, they don't. As we all know just one moving light needs multiple values assigned to a range of attributes just so it can move and change colour!

 

Good luck with the show.

 

Best Regards,