Lanterns- 15a round pin or 16a ceeform?

[Louis sullivan NLS]

Hi all,

 

Just a thing I noticed and thought I'd ask. most (generic) lanterns I work with are fitted with 15a plugtops, but certain people fit 16a blue ceeforms to them instead, does anyone know why this is?

 

Thanks

[Andrew C]

We have done this before, however -

 

15A traditionally from theatres where they have remained in use from LONG ago. No real need to change while they are still available.

 

"Newer" forms of entertainment, and some newer theatres are going to 16s as they are marginally cheaper and easily available. The blue ones are hideous in a grid. You CAN get black ones but not as readily. They are still physically large in relation to the 15s.

[dmoffat]

Many non-theatre sparks will look at a 15A plug and try and justify that it is somehow illegal, and in honesty most 15A plugs are less safe than 13A or 16A plugs (mostly due to the lack of shielding on the live and neutral pins)

 

They are fine to use, and used across many theatres, but it is argued that 16A is a better connection, as there is no possibility of touching any live pins ever, and that the 16A ceeforms are cheaper.

[Emma_P]

stage electrics sell nice black 16A ceeform, they are a bit more expensive than the cheap blue ones but worth it in my opinion!

[Modge]

15s can be a swine to get apart as well, which is tedious when up a ladder.

 

If you have a search you should be able to find a few threads arguing the toss about using the different connectors as a means of telling hard power from dimmed (many places run dimmed on 15's and hard power on 16's to prevent accidentally dimming things that should have hard power. In response to this many other people will point out that if you just pay attention to what you connect where that doesn't happen any way.)

 

Far and away the biggest reason for a lot of 15 still being about though is that it's on the on end of perfectly good cables that would take time and money to replace.

[grizzly]

Many non-theatre sparks will look at a 15A plug and try and justify that it is somehow illegal...

 

The ones who have never heard of BS 546:1950

 

most 15A plugs are less safe than 13A or 16A plugs (mostly due to the lack of shielding on the live and neutral pins)

 

Although shielded-pin versions are freely available

RS 296-3717

[rossmck]

Generally I've found that most hire stock had 15A plugs on generic lanterns and keeps 16A for 'intelligents' - most spaces I've worked in have been wired similarly, having a different 'standard' of plug for hard-power makes it far less likely that someone will inadvertently plug a moving head etc into a dimmer circuit...

 

If it's your own venue it comes down to preference I guess, I like 15A personally..

[Guest lightnix]

I prefer 16A cee. Despite their bright colour, I find them much easier to hide behind scaff bars.

 

That said, the fragility of the shutter on the females - especially in el cheapo versions - is a right pain sometimes <_<

[Ynot]

15s can be a swine to get apart as well, which is tedious when up a ladder.

Hmmm...

And how is separating a non-captive 15A plug/socket harder than a 16A with a captive flap...?

 

My personal views on this one (as stated several times in previous topics) are:

 

 

 

• Definitely a good idea in a lot of venues to distinguish between dimmed and switched power. Even in pro (touring) houses I'd still maintain that view, as the visiting crew won't always have full knowledge of what's where.
  
• 15A is far less obtrusive than 16A, being smaller in general terms, and can be hidden easier.
  
• For wall-mounted sockets (esp in tight spaces) 16A takes up a LOT more space than a 15A, and the cable coming out at right angles to the wall can add other issues. So where you have a patch panel of dips on stage floor level, for example, and a load of cables sticking out they can present a significant hazard. And where (as we do) we have such patch panels at height, you'd have cables hanging down about a foot from the wall, and would need to pull these in somehow to prevent a 'hanging' hazard... 15A would just hang nicely down the wall.
  
• And of course the plugging/unplugging question. I can easily plug/unplug a 15A with one hand (on a fixed socket install, and probably also on a flying lead if neded) but connecting a 16A with the flap is a bit of a pain. Possible, sometimes, but not what I'd describe as easier than a 15A.
  

[paulears]

If we're also looking at safety, then to certain people those nice enticing unshielded sockets are just waiting for fingers to be stuck in - especially when the flap's been broken off!

[Yorkie]

If we're also looking at safety, then to certain people those nice enticing unshielded sockets are just waiting for fingers to be stuck in - especially when the flap's been broken off!

Broken flaps do not expose dangerous terminals. I have a 32A ceeform sitting here, the nearest I can get my little finger to the live or neutral terminal is >1cm. 125A ceeform maybe, but 16A definitely not.

 

Best reason for having 15A in a venue is to use it for dimmed circuits, and 16A for hard power. Of course this really doesn't help at all if you have Soca anywhere. 16A connectors are cheaper and easier to wire (cores dont usually need to be different lengths etc). Of course a huge advantage of having everything based around 16's is that you only need one type of spare connector in stock, and you have all your cable stock available, no matter what type of event you're dealing with.

[adam2]

For a new or completly renewed fit out in a small venue, have a good look around at what is already in use for heaters etc.

In most premises only 13 amp plugs and sockets are used, and theatre lighting may therefore be either 15 amp or 16 amp as prefered.

 

However some Churches, church halls, schools and similar places still use 15 amp sockets for heating (often controlled by timeswitch, or thermostat).

I very recently installed some 15 amp sockets for fixed electric heaters, 13 amp sockets being rejected to stop people unplugging the heaters to charge phones.

In such cases I would urge the use of 16 amp ceeforms to avoid any confusion with heating circuits.

[sparkyweb]

I think most people have hit the nail on the head.

Around Y2K it was in vogue to use 16A as the preferred choice for all connectors in fixed installations however that soon disappeared. For the most part that changed as moving lights moved into the mainstream and it became accepted that generics were on a 15A connector and movers / non dims went onto 16A connectors.

 

In my personal opinion that is by far the better way of doing things.

[LXbydesign]

I agree.

 

The venue im in now since opening was all fitted out with 16amp for dim and non-dim power. It did feel strange at first having EVERYTHING on 16 amp (whereas used to the -as above-usual 15=dim, 16=hard power config).

 

Im used to it now, but to save any mishaps, ive got into the habit of marking a 'non-dim' cable with a ring of red LX up by the socket and plug ends. This seems to work and creates an easy and quick ID of whats what running along a bar or a tripe of cable.

 

As then the rig gets stripped and cables removed from movers / LEDS / scroller PSU's etc the so do the bits of red tape get removed from the TRS. All back into the cable bins, ready for the next one . . . .

 

As some stuff still comes in in 15a, I just made up a load of jumpers. I do miss the grelco though! Awwwwww

[rossmck]

... I do miss the grelco though! Awwwwww

 

Forgot that point - another plus point to 15A... Grelcos are small and relatively unobtrusive... the equivalent connector in 16A ceeform world is rather unwieldily and certainly harder to hide neatly on a bar.