Behringer UltraPar

[James]

my twopence....

 

Well as far as I am aware Thoman is the only company selling the Behringer par's and at a very attractive price.

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Studiospares

Musician's Warehouse

 

To try two others for a start.

 

 

James

[slim_mcslim]

Studiospares

Musician's Warehouse

 

apparantly so... ;)

[merlin24]

I m afraid I have to agree with Erik Larsen on this one, I look at it like this, Would I buy a decent Sony (or other) Tv or a cheap nasty one? The Sony one you can pretty much guarentee will still be working in 7 years time, the cheap one probably not. You may upgrade in the mean time but the old one will still be working. You can guarantee on a cheaper lantern all of the important bits like yoke lock off etc etc will break very quickly. I personally would spend a bit more and get the real thing especially if it was my own investment.

[Wilf dLampy]

Does it really matter what brand you use? Cheap copy vs expensive original. What makes of PAR-64 parcan does everyone use? They're not all Thomas ones.......

[Guest lightnix]

Maybe one day you'll design and market something of your own, Wilf. Maybe somebody will rip off your idea and produce cheap copies of it, while claiming it was all their own work (in much the same way that Behringer seem to be doing).

 

Maybe then you'll realise why it matters.

[Wilf dLampy]

Maybe one day you'll design and market something of your own, Wilf.  Maybe somebody will rip off your idea and produce cheap copies of it, while claiming it was all their own work (in much the same way that Behringer seem to be doing).

 

Maybe then you'll realise why it matters.

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I'll agree that nicking someones design and marketing it as your own is definitely wrong, but from a customers perspective, if I can buy pretty much the same item for a fraction of the price (built to the required level of quality), I'm more inclined to do so.

My example of the Par-can was to show that no-one thinks about who came up with the original design for a PAR64 can, and whether or not the patent is licensed to all the manufacturers who quickly converted their metal waste bin factories to produce lighting fixtures. :( Mr Par and Mr Can may have had their design ripped off by other manufacturers, but the customer really doen't mind, or even notice.

Especially as items like this become more generic, multiple manufacturers will produce them (either by nicking the idea, building it from the ground up, or licensing the patent). Does anyone else remember all the fuss about moving head lights and non-Vari-Lite companies making them?

[andy_s]

Especially as items like this become more generic, multiple manufacturers will produce them (either by nicking the idea, building it from the ground up, or licensing the patent).  Does anyone else remember all the fuss about moving head lights and non-Vari-Lite companies making them?

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See this months L&SI "letters to the editor" (interestingly both from ETC) to see manufacturers view of the term "generic".

[jexjexjex]

Just when we're speaking about these units and, in particular, the ETC 575W HPL lamp, there's a unit for sale on ebay (Should be here) that claims to use exactly that.

[Mush]

Looks like its similar , apart from HPL lamp to the Unipar UP4

 

http://www.unipar.com/index2.htm

 

seem to remember 1.2K units when they came out to replace 2K units being the subject of interesting turf wars.

 

 

CCT and others think had lanterns designed for 1.2K lamp but Strand bought the first years worth of production, in advance, from the only factory producing them at the time.

[P. Funk]

I just can't take those unipar lanterns seriously when you look at the rest of their range....

[Mush]

Plastics aint worst choice in world for application, polycarbonate is pretty tough, 100 times impact strength of glass, lot stronger than acrylic, pay off is its soft and will scratch but colour is dyed through,unlike wave of paint near a Chinese bean can, and rows of uni pars look distinctly different.

[ThaiLD]

On the subject or Behringer, we live in a society where we believe in inocence until proven guilty...

True, although it is only in criminal cases where guilt must be proved "beyond reasonable doubt". Civil cases (AFAIK) only have to demonstrate a "balance of probability".

 

For those who haven't read the whole article, here are a couple of (edited) quotes...

 

Can you tell us about Mr Behringer, who copied your products without licence?

The German Federal Court found him guilty... He copied so exactly those products... used the same arguments in his brochures... we started pursuits in 1987. And he put on so many arguments to the Court that it took until 1992 to find him finally guilty. In the meantime, he kept on using and using our technology. Then the next product he copied... everything so exactly, but from an earlier version, that he even copied the mistakes we had made! ...we went to Court because he had copied our manual, page for page, illustration for illustration... He's an unbelievable thief, and then he says that he developed all this on his own... but all he is a copyist. Each product is a copy.

 

Did he copy products from other manufacturers ?

Among others dbx, Bristow, Rockon, Mackie... So he's a very dangerous person... he plays with rules under the table: he has no morality, he laughs, he makes a mockery of business ethics... what he's doing is confusing the market by telling them "Oh, that product is perfect, it works great", but when you analyse the product it's a bad copy. But he's that kind to make great advertising: that's easy for him, because he has no engineering expense...

 

Is that the kind of business with whom you want to spend your money ?

 

The problem with companies who illegally copy other companies' products is that they reduce / remove the incentive for genuine inventors to create new products, thus slowing the pace of innovation. By selling cheap copies, they seriously reduce the return on the often heavy investments made by the true originators of the product.

 

Ask yourselves: if there were no such thing as a Source 4 Par, would there be any such thing as the Behringer Ultrapar? Personally I think not.

 

I have the same problem, albeit on a different level. A (merciful) few of the products sold by Wavicleâ„¢ have been ripped off to the micrometre by Chinese manufacturers, who then sell them for less than I can get the legit products at trade. What can I do, other than reduce the price of the originals (reducing the return on my investment in the process) and drop them from the range when they sell out, hoping that I'll make a better choice next time? Believe me, there's no point in trying to explain to the Great Unwashed Public that we sell a more reliable product and that the copies are sh :) te. They just laugh, say it's all sour grapes and that it serves you right for "trying to rip them off"

 

Oscar Wilde may well have said that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but I just can't see it from where I'm standing.

 

About a year ago, I had an idea (without giving too much away) for a multifunctional portable LED light and christened it with a cute, catchy name. I produced a few sketches and basic proof-of concept models in 3D and began to research the patenting and Intellectual Property minefield.

 

After about a month I shelved it, because I realised that even if I did set up a new company, put money into it, found a backer, gave them 49% of the company, R&D'd the unit into production, marketed it and by some chance saw it become a success, it would only be a matter of time before the knock-offs started flooding out of the Far East and that we would spend a large chunk of the next few years engaged in litigation, rather than coming up with new ideas.

 

So just bear in mind exactly what it is you are doing, the next time you buy the cheap copy as opposed to the more expensive original. It's a hell of a lot more than saving yourself a few quid...

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I agree with that... China stuff is just evil... breaks all the time... I once used 4 chinese moving thingos in my rig... the light output was REALLY bad and two of them stopped working on the first day so I had to swop out for better fixtures... all in all chinese stuff looks like a great option but if you have to pay for new bulbs and new fixtures because the thing stops working in 2 months then your going to have serious financial problems (I was using chinese PAR64 bulbs... maybe 300 hours of use out of all of them... in a theatre rig with about 80 of them I managed to get 2 blown bulbs after the first rehearsal... with GE on rental I got 1 blown over a 5 day show period...)

[paulears]

Chinese product is not all awful. Some is, some isn't. A bit like saying all british cars are less reliable than foreign. You simply can't generalise.

 

I've sat and thought about what I have that is chinese, and I've come accross just one item that failed. This was swapped out by the importer without quibble. I have some chinese expensive kit on order, and the manufacturer is providing a whole package of spare parts to ensure anything likely to fail can be replaced easily and quickly.

[Alec]

In the pro audio/lighting world, I think there's often room for both sets of organisations.

 

The pro touring/hire outfits will tend to go for the originals, as they're typically more road proof and have the backup/support/spares environment that you need in the pro world.

 

For the amateur and low-end semi-pro market, these bargain bucket products can be a godsend. My Eurolite MultiPars are great, and easily worth their GBP 45. I don't expect them to break from the light use I'll give them, but nor would I expect to be able to buy spares easily if they did - but they're not relied on for anyone's income. I simply couldn't/wouldn't have had the budget for ETC S4 originals.

 

Similarly, for mixers/amps there are the the two camps which typically have two separate audiences for exactly the same reasons.

 

At least this is an industry with a decent proportion of professional users which will continue to use "proper" kit. Unlike many other intellectual-property based organisations that are fighting IP issues at all levels.

[RoyF18]

Chinese product is not all awful. Some is, some isn't. A bit like saying all british cars are less reliable than foreign. You simply can't generalise.

 

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Don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to be an @rse but I can't think of any reliable British cars. I'm sure there are some so someone correct me please...