Guys and Dolls

[BenHowitt]

Hi guys,

 

Our school is running Guys and Dolls this year, I'm LDing, and my SM (who's leaving this year) has told me he wants me to make the lighting suitably spectacular. The only problem is that our budget will be quite limited, due to an expensive production of Les Mis last year. My question, then is has anyone lit Guys and Dolls before, and what did they find were the key elements of the lights plan that made it worth watching.

 

Obviously, facelight is a priority, but is there scope for a cyc or something similar? Or any other effects people have used that might fit? Apologies for such a broad question, but we're at early stages, and I want to get ahead of the game this year.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Ben Howitt

[david.elsbury]

Ben

As with most other similar posts of "what should I do for my show of xxxxxx"...

 

When you say you are "LD'ing" what do you believe "LD" to mean? Lighting Designer? (if so- shouldn't you design the lighting based on what *you* think, rather than suggestions off the 'net?)

 

There's no way for us to give you any suggestions without seeing the venue, costumes, set, etc.

 

My suggestion would be to discuss with the director and the costume and set people (if applicable) to find out what they want to achieve and then go from there.

 

Go to rehearsals and see what's required.

 

Also read through the script and see if there are any references to night/day/other settings that may suggest ways to light them.

 

David

[boatman]

You could also get hold of a DVD of the 1955 movie starring Frank Sinatra. It might give you a few ideas.

 

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B000F3T91I.01.MZZZZZZZ.jpg

[WiLL]

Guys and Dolls being a fairly traditional musical, I would suggest making provision for a pair of followspots. Using these will allow you not to have to sacrifice the 'look' of the rest of the stage whilst being able to see the main performers.

[David Lee]

I'm LDing, and my SM (who's leaving this year) has told me he wants me to make the lighting suitably spectacular

 

And tell your Stage Manager that as LD you will design the lights with the Director, he can look after the stage :)

[tony g]

I guess in order to make any really useful suggestions it would help us to know what kit you have available in terms of lanterns and number of channels, and also the kind of venue, is it a studio or a traditional procenium arch and fly curtains type school hall?

[Bobbsy]

Well, as others have said, you really have to sit down and read a copy of the script making notes about location, time and how you "see" a scene, then have a conversation with the director about his ideas for the show. However, a few general comments:

 

First, Guys and Dolls is a "classic" musical and from an era before moving lights. Having lights waggling randomly just because you can would probably run counter to the style of the play. You and the director may decide to use movers anyway but that should be a conscious decision taken with a knowledge of what you're doing.

 

Second, there are (from memory) four main types of scene to light. A lot of the action takes place in outdoor street scenes or in a Salvation Army-style mission. Usually these are just lit with a fairly general bright wash. Second, there are scenes in the Hot Box night club where, because it's a club, you can afford to be more "theatrical". Similarly, there's a scene at a Havana night club where you can play with colour etc. Finally, Act 2 opens with a crap game scene down in a sewer where most LD's have some fun. Obviously there is room to play with all this so you really need to have some thoughts for yourself.

 

Finally, I'm not usually one to advocate looking at film versions before lighting (or doing sound) for the stage but, in this case, maybe you should watch some 1940s and 50s musicals (Singing in the Rain would be a good one) to get an idea of the colours and bright general lighting that fit the style.

 

Bob

[BenHowitt]

Okay, thanks to all who've given their time . I was more wondering if anyone remembered any specific effects they used at key points, that worked really well?

 

Fair point on the Stage Manager though David :P.

 

In terms of what we have for feasibility; proscenium stage, with fly curtains. We have about 10 PARs, 8 Fresnels, 7 slightly faulty Patt23s, 4 Brio profiles, 6 or so Cantata profiles and 10 floods, 6 for house and 4 for stage. There is some scope for hiring more, and we have a Zero88 Bullfrog, so 96 channels t play with, for which we do have enough dimmers.

[paulears]

Ben - you missed the point people were making. This isn't the kind of show that really has effects at certain places - at least, not ones indicated in the script. It's possible that certain things could get asked for by the director, but if you are doing the show 'as per the book', then you must remember that the show was designed to be lit by the equipment of the day - so clever effects, lighting or sound wise couldn't be done. So you'd find that washes for most scenes are what is expected - especially for chorus numbers where there is a lot of travel by the cast. Back then, the best they could have done would a few specials, but the real differences that they could do were overall colour. Think back to the old established lighting books written in the 50s and 60s - so we have bright colours, pinks, blues and straws because stage lighting was pretty dim in those days. On top of that we have the alternative 'nightclub style' scenes. Remember this is nothing to to with today's night clubs - it means shadows, saturated reds, golds - warm/hot colours - but really just very different from the other scenes. Maybe if you have tables as part of the set, you could isolate these - but it depends on the kit.

 

The other thing is that for school shows, it's important the audience can see everyone - including the 'less able' ones the director has moved as far upstage as possible. Your teacher may understand lighting, but in my experience, few do - treating it as illumination only, and then being unable to give you any real guides. A real LD would be working from the script, and then adding in extra info as s/he gets it, making certain anything the director suddenly asks for in rehearsal is already (hopefully) rigged. Technical rehearsals in school shows are usually just more acting rehearsals - they just have lights and sound added.

 

For what it's worth, I always used to make sure the credits in the programme for school and college shows would simply read Lighting - Fred Smith Sound - Jo Brown. I can't quite bring myself to use the word 'designer', because in most cases, lighting doesn't get designed at all, it just gets done with whatever equipment is available, or somebody else orders.

 

I think nowadays that the word 'designer' gets waved around as a sort of tag - it doesn't get applied to people who actually design - as in those who plan the end product in advance. Circumstances dictate that in education and even amateur productions, there isn't the kind of structure to let this happen. You simply get landed with lighting what somebody else has pictured in their head, and hasn't shared with anyone. There are obviously exceptions, but they are rare.

[themadhippy]

The only lighting effect I can recall from when I lit guys and dolls was a few tubular ripples for the sewer scene,the rest as has been mentioned is pretty standard washes.

[Tregilibob]

Hi, as a theatre tech employed at a school, we did this last year, sounds like a similar set up.

We had washes in different areas, to allow flexibility in lighting just one section at a time, about 6 spots for solos/highlight main areas of acting, and the only major colours we used were in the sewer scene, greens and blues, low intensity, and some pinks, oranges and reds for Havana and the Hot box.

 

My suggestion is to go watch some rehearsals. until you see where they are you can't light them. Sometimes the director will say, to the cast, "Then blackout, wait, lights up, and go" which is always a useful thing to hear as you can follow the script, work out where they are, and mark it down. it isn't always where you think!

 

Talk to the director, look at set design to see if there is anything in particular you need to light/ not light/ will be in the way.

 

I used fresnels for washes, profiles for spots, pars for colours. No movers, no followspots.

[paulears]

There's nothing worse than badly operated followspots for destroying mood. Frequently follow spot ops are the people who were too useless to be dancers, didn't have the right memory for being an actor, and had no technical skills for operating and setting up, so they got 'given' followspot as a punishment! Followspotting is a thing people can either do, or can't. It isn't something that everyone has the knack for - like working a video camera - very similar skills. For school/college shows, I too subscribe to the no followspots unless they are good and really are needed. I have seen shows where kit was limited so lighting was a bit patchy - a couple of really soft followspots in skilled hands can really lift the show. Two wobbly, different size circles lurching around destroy it!

 

Only this week I've seen a totally useless ents team member get bored standing up followspotting, try doing it sitting down and vaguely 'pointing' it, and then. fed up with having too prod it as people moved, open the iris and left it covering the whole stage - and nobody noticed!

[BenHowitt]

Okay, thanks all . I'll throw up some pictures of what we end up with in the Crew Room post-show for anyone interested.

[charl.ie]

I'll throw up some pictures of what we end up with in the Crew Room post-show for anyone interested.

Or you could throw them in the special-purpose, school only Next Generation thread for that specific purpose!

[tom_robbo]

Hi Ben,

 

I was part of a guys and dolls school show not so long ago and I have also seen the west end performance.

From a lighting point of view to do with effects you don't need much, it is set quite blandly with not much flashing or colour going on at all really, so intelligent fixtures in this case probobly wouldn't offer masses more to the production.

On the school production I was part of what we did do was get in a rear projection screen. I don't know how you're school figures for the creation of set etc but there are a lot of different settings in the show, and the rear projection meant we could add to the set that was on stage, giving an overall more detailed set. Just an idea you may want to play with.

 

Going back to lighting, another point is that in guys and dolls the majority of characters do wear rimmed hats. So your FOH lighting is essential. Giving a lot of lighting from above is just going to cast a shadow so just be aware of it.

You seem to have a wide enough selection of kit to be able to pull it off so as people have mentioned just sit in the rehearsals see if you can see the style of performance the Director is making it take.

 

Going back to the topic of what a lighting designer actually is, you may find that some lights are left static in school establishments as paulears has said (although this is not my experience of it) but if you are deciding what lights are appearing on stage when, in what colour and what intensity I believe you are effectively designing, maybe not on a large scale as your not re-focusing, choosing your kit etc (although you may do that) but still its a step towards learning about the role of a lighting designer. I mean you're not just sitting there pressing the "Go" button so you're not just the lighting operator.

Even in professional theatre, I know of places where people come in and design lighting for a show without refocusing any lights. They are quite often told by the Chief LX or the resident lighting technician what theyve got to work with, so its just a case of deciding which lights are on when.

So I believe that the description of what a lighting designer is, is open to discussion.

 

Hope this helps.

TR