NEW PA DB ARENA

[widowgobo]

im going to up grade my PA, I need somthing that will cope with battle of bands B-) (200 people max). I wont be spending more than 2500 euro. Im thinking of a db arena 2x 12'' or 15'' top and 2 x SW18s.

Also 2x yamaha P2500s in mono to power it or a Dynacord SL2400, how much second hand for the amps?

[bassnote]

Also 2x yamaha P2500s in mono to power it or a Dynacord SL2400, how much second hand for the amps?

Not too sure on the second hand values for the two listed amps. I guess you have been offered them as you mention them in the post!

 

As the DB Areana SW18 is rated at 600w at 8ohm, you would either require the SL2400 (4 Ω - 2 x 1200 W, 8 Ω - 2 x750 W or Bridged 4 Ω - 1 x 2800 W, 8Ω - 1x 1800 W) running at 8Ohm. If later you want to expand the system, you could use 2 x SW18 on each side of the amp. Or you could use 1 bridged P2500 (4 Ω - 2 x 350 W, 8 Ω - 2 x250 W or Bridged 8Ω - 1x 700 W) a side, but the min impedance to run the p2500 bridged is 8ohm, so you can parallel additional speakers onto them.

 

Neither of the amps listed are suitable for the Arena 12 or 15's.

 

Someone posted about a cheap deal on new amps (chinese) from thomann the other week which could serve as good tempary amps (espically if they are installed) before you upgrade to better (reliable) ones. And the added advantage that thomann give you a 3 year warrentee, but you might want to buy a backup amp as a spare!! Look at http://forum.speakerplans.com/eaw-caz-2500...post316375.html and http://www.thomann.de/gb/eaw_caz_2500.htm

 

Peter

[widowgobo]

sw 18 is 600 watt rms @ 8 ohm and both 12" and 15" tops are 400 watt rms @ 8 ohm thats 1000 watt rms 4 ohm each side and the p2500 is 1300 watt @ 4 ohm mono. two of them in mono I thought would have done the trick (not leaving much head room)

Any one have xp. with the crown xl 5000 thats 2000 watts a side @ 4 ohm. as for second hand im just poor ** laughs out loud ** (all specs are from memory so some may be wrong) those thomman amps are good so long as you know there limations. I my self use a TA1400 and two of those

double 15" for small pub gigs (two singers one guitar and a bodhran) and its well able for it. sound is exelent for a 700 euro system

[bassnote]

the p2500 is 1300 watt @ 4 ohm mono.

 

looking at the manual, it states and seems to be written on the back of the amp, that when used in Bridged mode, the min load is 8ohm... so if running 4ohm on it, it could make a very unhappy amp!

 

oh - here is the link to the manual http://www.manualnguide.com/download/manua...ers-manual.html

 

Peter

[widowgobo]

in the web site it says it can http://www.yamaha.com/ca/productdetail.htm...DETYP=ATTRIBUTE

perhaps your site is out of date

 

thanks and all the best

[bassnote]

Sorry, I was looking at the older P2500 not the P2500S.

 

I guess you would be able to run the system in mono with 2 of these amps.

 

My mistake,

 

Peter

[widowgobo]

I think ill go with them yamaha seem very good, has any one much xp. with these amps.

I heard some where that soome amps dont last as long when allways run in mono, true? or just cheap amps?

 

thanks bassnote

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

just noticed that the 4ohm mono 1300 was at 1Khz so when running 20hz-20khz it would be lower 1100ish? so two 3500S's to power it (2000watt @ 4 ohm, 1khz) would be perfect but pricey 450 each ;)

[fatfrog]

Hi,

The Yamaha P Series amps are pretty good for the money, Connectors could be of better quality but if your using a patch panel this isn't going to matter as it's connect once and forget.

 

As regards the pricing. UK pricing of yamaha equipment seems to have been cut.

 

Check out studio spares for yamaha amps.

Studiospares

 

There a good bunch to deal with also.

 

Ordered something on friday and it arrived this morning. And yes I do live in the far corner of ireland...Co. Kerry ;)

 

Alan

[widowgobo]

thanks will cheak that out

 

rory

[widowgobo]

would a 12" top give me nicer sound with the subs?

if in the far future if I added two more subs would this just up the volume of could I put more drum or some thing of that nature?

is SPL mesured at peak or RMS?

and finaly if two subs are 130ish spl and tops 125ish spl whats the overall SPL

 

thats it for now

 

love you guys!

the all ways inquisitive

RORY

[Hypersound]

Rory, look I don't want to be patronising and I don't want to rain on your parade but I am a bit concerned that this could all go horribly wrong for you.

 

Firstly. I am guessing that you are planning on using one amp per side and relying on the internal passive crossovers in the subs? If so, are you sure that it will present the amplifier with a 4 Ohm load rather than an 8 Ohm load? If it is an 8 Ohm load then you may want to rethink your amplification requirements. If you are in doubt I would check before buying.

 

You are right to question SPL as it can be quoted as peak or constant with a typical difference of 6 dB between the two. The fact that it isn't made clear on the specs would be a cause for concern to me as would be the fact that there is no explanation (well I didn't see one) as to whether the SPL quoted is actually measured or simply calculated based on sensitivity, which ignores things like power compression. The lack of explanation always makes me wary but then I am a born cynic. I would certainly want details before buying. I would also want sensitivity figures.

 

OK you asked about overall SPL and. all things being equal that is going to be limited to the maximum output of your "quietest" box, so if your sub is 130 dB and your top is 125 dB then your overall maximum is 125 dB unless you unbalance the system by having 5 dB more sub than high/mid. If you added an extra sub you would, in theory, gain another 3 dB and possibly another 3 dB on top of that if the change in impedance meant double the power from your amplifier - but only to your subs so, in your scenario, it wouldn't make any difference as your maximum output would be still be limited to the 125 dB output from the high/mids.

 

And that takes us back to the lack of info regarding max SPL. A quick check gives max SPL of 132 dB for the subs and 127 dB for the 12" tops. Worst case is if that is a calculated peak output in which case the maximum constant output is about 121 dB before power compression, which takes another (say, it could be more) 4 dB off, so down to 117 dB. Then, if the crossover is only presenting a 8 Ohm load to your amplifier there goes another 3 dB and it is 114 dB and falling....

 

Does it matter? That is down to you really. 114 dB is still quite loud for a 200 person venue and you migh be happy with that - though you will be maxing your system to get it which increases distortion and involves the risk of driver damage. All I am saying is that I would get the actual info before parting with your hard earned so that you know what you are actually buying.

 

Hope that helps (though it probably doesn't)

Andy

[widowgobo]

are you sure that it will present the amplifier with a 4 Ohm load rather than an 8 Ohm load?

 

 

 

114 dB is still quite loud for a 200 person venue and you migh be happy with that - though you will be maxing your system to get it

8ohm sub+8ohm top=4ohm load (thats what I thought)

 

well a 200 person venue is the biggest id be doing but I thought I was a little over spect for that.

is "maxing the system" rms?

 

any info is great

thanks andy

rory

[smalljoshua]

Depending on the type of crossover used in the subs, you will see either 4 or 8 Ohms at the amp. It has been discussed on here before, have a search for passive crossover impedance.

 

Also, have you thought about active? 2x Flexsys F12 @ 659EUR each and 2x The Box TA18 @ 369EUR each totals 2128EUR, these in theory will be louder than the Arena system.

 

Josh

[Hypersound]

"maxing the system" is a very complicated technical term.....that I just made up on the spot! All I meant to say is that, in that scenario, 114 dB is the best you are going to get without driving your amplifiers into clipping and, as a result, killing your HF drivers - as well as making everything sound awful!

 

Re the crossover thing, wire an 8 Ohm sub in parallel with another 8 Ohm sub and you will get a 4 Ohm load. With crossovers it is nearly always different. The signal from the amp travels down the speaker cable until it hits the passive crossover, at which point all the frequencies below 150 Hz (in this case) are sent to the sub, which is an 8 Ohm load, and all the frequencies above 150 Hz are sent to the high/mid which is also an 8 Ohm load. But the amp doesn't know there is a crossover network there so all the amp "sees" is a great big speaker box with an 8 Ohm load. I hope that makes sense.

 

Look, I have no axe to grind with db boxes and I can't even remember hearing any while you have. Maybe they sound great if a bit quiet. Maybe the the boxes are actually capable of a constant 127 real world dB and the quoted figure is a real world measurement (did I mention that I am a cynic?). Obviously you have a reason to like them so maybe you should stick with that but, if it were me, I would want an explanation of their specs before getting my chequebook out.....and even then, like Josh says, there is other stuff out there to listen to.

 

Again, hope that helps.

 

Cheers.

Andy

[widowgobo]

I would much perfer a passive system.

maybe a p9000 for subs, P5000 for tops with a 150hz high pass, would be better

I WAS thinking HK PR:O system, but the db had better specs.

 

im now thinken

TA18SUB/DB TOP

I herd bandpass subs were a bit muddy(the box T18)

but I am willing to lose some but, not much, sound qualiy for 3db.

 

thanks to all

rory