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Working At Height


DanE

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Hi all wondering if you could advise me on a few things with regards to Working At Height/Work Positioning At Height.

 

I have been discussing with various people regarding the items I would need to purchase to have a 'basic' equipment list and where to buy such items.  The list I've come up with is as follows:

 

1x Full Body Harness - Petzl Navaho Bod Fast

 

1x Y Lanyard with Fall Arrester and 2x Petzl MGO Hooks

 

1x 2m Petzl Grilion

 

1x Hard Hat - Petzl Vertx

 

I know its all Petzl but as a rock climber I have experience of the petzl brand, quality and value.  I was wondering where would be best to purchase these items.  I have been sent in the direction of LGH (who have a shop at Three Mill Studios in London), Total Access website and LYON (who also provide/organise Working At Height training).  Ive also been told it would be better to go on a training course and at the end of it buy the equipment from the course providers catalog possibly at a discounted rate.

 

The second part of this question is who provides Working At Height training and what are rough prices of such courses?

 

I'm going to PLASA this Tuesday with the intention of talking to companies with regards to the questions above but would like to get a little bit more information before I go so I know what to look out for.

 

Thank you in advance.

 

 

Dan

 

Edit:

 

NB: I've posted this topic in here as it seemed to be the best place to post. Please move if I've posted it in the wrong area.

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Hi Dan,

 

List sounds about right.. remember to add on a few steel carabiners to link the Grilion & FA to your harness. Personally I'd go for the vertex vent just to give some ventilation if needed!

 

Happy to recommend Rig Technology.. best price's I've seen and top quality service in my experience. I'm sure I've mentioned them to you before when you asked where I was buying my bits from.. Perhaps I'm thinking of someone else!

 

Website's not the best, but does have prices for you to work from. Linky

 

T

 

p.s. cya Tuesday, we'll speak offline.

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As a rock climber you presumably also know that you can expect the build quality of a Wild Country, DMM or Black Diamond harness to be every bit as good as a Petzl? So it is with the work gear. Petzl gear is certainly very good, but they're not the only manufacturer turning out top quality kit.

 

Some specific comments:

 

> 1x Full Body Harness - Petzl Navaho Bod Fast

An excellent harness - but you should try before you buy, especially if you're not bang in the middle of the size range. (They only make two sizes; in my case they make them in 'slightly too small' or 'quite a bit too big' - so while I'm very impressed with the Bod, it seems I can't wear one myself.)

 

> 1x Y Lanyard with Fall Arrester and 2x Petzl MGO Hooks

How long is the lanyard, and what work at height are you going to be doing exactly? MGO's are big bulky things - great for double clipping your way along a truss but not so good for other purposes. If you're using only one 'leg' of the lanyard at any point, you need to be careful what you do with the other one. Read this. (And possibly add a 'lanyard parker' to your list?)

If you might need to re-configure your lanyard from time to time, an alternative is to assemble your own from components such as the Aborbica stand along shock-absorber and the Jane sewn rope lanyard using suitable maillons.

 

> 1x 2m Petzl Grilion

Nowt wrong with those. Heightec Piranha is a possible alternative.

 

> 1x Hard Hat - Petzl Vertx

As someone already said, you may prefer the 'Vent' version. But again, try before you buy, if one Petzl hat doesn't fit you well probably none of them will, so don't be too dogmatic about the manufacturer.

 

I was wondering where would be best to purchase these items.

My favourite gear shop is a brilliant little place in Buxton called Caving Supplies - sadly the website isn't nearly as good as the shop so it's possibly better to ring them up for a chat than to buy online.

I've linked to their website twice this evening, so it'd be rude not to mention Tag Safety.

For Heightec kit it might not be a bad idea to drop Riddle a PM via the Blue Room.

 

I'm going to PLASA this Tuesday with the intention of talking to companies

Sounds like you should seek out and have a chat with Chris Higgs (you'll find him on or around the Total Fabs stand), you should also be sure to pay a visit to the UK Rigging stand.

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Cool fantastic answers guys.

 

As a rock climber you presumably also know that you can expect the build quality of a Wild Country, DMM or Black Diamond harness to be every bit as good as a Petzl? So it is with the work gear. Petzl gear is certainly very good, but they're not the only manufacturer turning out top quality kit.

 

I am aware of other major manufacturers of climbing gear yes but my preferred kit has been petzl since I find their harnesses more comfortable. I do own a few pieces of Black Diamond equipment and I have had a DMM harness but after I fell in it I would not recommend one.

 

try before you buy, especially if you're not bang in the middle of the size range.

 

I am aware there is a size 1 and size 2. I've tried on one of my work colleagues harness which fitted well and that was a size 1 but I will be visiting a shop to have a proper fitting before I buy defiantly.

 

How long is the lanyard, and what work at height are you going to be doing exactly?

 

The length is 160cm this includes the length of MGO hook, lanyard arms and length of fall arrest before deployment. The specific lanyard I am looking at requires a clearance of 4.35m to allow for safe deployment with stretch.

 

The working at height ill be undertaking will mainly be on ground supported truss at music gigs and festivals as these are the two main areas the company I work for, work in (hope that made sense).

 

With regards to the Helmet I was looking at the vented vertex I just missed out the vent part in my original description.

 

Many thanks for your advice chaps any more will be welcomed!

 

Dan

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Just as a point of interest, flints stock quite a range of Petzl equipment, including the Navaho harness and the vertez vent, as well as various fall arrestors, lanyards etc.

 

I've just done a course on the use/inspection etc. of fall arrest and work positioning harnesses with a safety training company in Devon. Normally they charge around the £500 mark (ex. VAT) but because I know the owner of the company I got for considerably less!

 

I know Lyon run a large selection of courses tailored to the events industry although I have no idea on prices. Pity they aren't at Plasa. However it might an idea to have a chat with rope assemblies who also stock Petzl (among others) equipment.

 

I know loads of the guys you work with have rope access/harness training - I presume you've asked them though?

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I have been asking round my co-workers, freelancers passing through the warehouse and friends who work in other areas of the industry. From this and personal experience I compiled the list I stated in my first post.

 

I have been pointed in the direction of well known companies for training, Lyon, narc and uk rigging are amongst the common replies I have recieved.

The reason im asking on here is to see if there are anymore well established companies I could contact with regards to training and equipment purchase.

 

 

Dan

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Someone recently told me that Plasa's National rigging certificate course encompasses rope access, although I'm not totally sure on this, however it definitely covers the use fall arrest and harnesses.

 

Maybe something to look in to and I would certainly have thought it would have other benefits for you to have in your line of work Dan

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the NRC doesnt cover rope access as such. The cert is not a training course. It is a competency checker.

 

If you want training in rope access training go to a provider who does IRATA. A rope access course is not directly relevent in our industry but it does have a few transferable skills and it serves as a good background knowledge.

 

Total Solutions/ Fabs do a really good working at height course.

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The rope access certificate is not necessary for me as I wouldn't get 1000 hours rope time in to complete the course, also my work doesn't require the use of rope access, on a regular basis, as most of our lighting grids are built up on ground support truss.

 

Just to clarify if my posts seem to lean more towards rope access rather than working at height.

 

In fact is there a difference? I thought working at height covers working on a fixed structure off ground level and rope access covers working off a suspended line. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

Dan

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I'd give another massive thumbs up for the Total solutions course, if you're spending £500 on working at heights the total solutions course has the added bonus of rigging and is geared specifically to our industry. I'd also offer a word of warning that although there are lots of companies making great climbing kit how many of these companies are saying this is designed for the work place? There is a specific petzl @ work catalogue for a reason and I have heard horror stories of people using climbing kit at work and being heavily fined by the HSE when it went wrong. (I'm sure atleast some of the manufacturers above do make kit for use at work and this is what posters above are refering to just wanted to clarify).

I've also been told that some insurance companies require Certificates of Conformity for PPE, does anyone have any experience of this?

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I've also been told that some insurance companies require Certificates of Conformity for PPE, does anyone have any experience of this?

I think most (busy) insurance inspection people will only be looking for a CE mark on equipment (which, surely, all PPE has nowadays?).

Though to be precise:

 

"The CE mark does not disclose which directive(s) or standards apply to the product, nor will it indicate the method of conformity assessment used to bring the product into compliance. This information is provided by other accompanying documents, such as the Declaration of Conformity".

 

But then (again, surely?) all PPE comes with such a Declaration as part of the information leaflet for you to keep and cherish. There is, technically, a difference between a Declaration and a Certificate but.......

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