DaStudent Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Please discuss various aspects of the scrollers market.I am learning the ropes of this segment. For geographies with little budget constraints - are the scrollers inferior alternative than using wash lights with color wheels (CMY) Are sophisticated products like Wybron's CXI IT color changer olor-mixing with RDM capabilities) a viable competition to the capable moving light ?How about inexpensive Chinese competition ? does it have a strong foothold in the market? Would be glad to get solid opinion about this market segment? and last one - Which company has the best cost effective products ?thxDa Student Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bleasdale Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 I prefer CMY wash fixtures over scrollers, yes. Only for the fact that MLs are quieter, last longer and arnt as tacky. If you have a small stage and use scrollers, the odds are you will get alot of live moves and colour scrolls. With MLs you can litterally fade the CMY to another value and it looks like a much nicer transition! With MLs getting cheaper to hire and buy.... I think scrollers will start to go out... not alot, but bit by bit every year. But like you say... budget!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokm Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Moderation: Snip...I am learning the ropes of this segment.??? In regards to yours, no, scrollers are not falling by the wayside and still very common place in new designs for theatre! Quite often there is no need for a ML when a properly thought out gel string is used in a scroller on the front of a light. If you don't need it to move or do anything other than change between a fixed set of colours, why bother going to the expense of hiring a moving light? Its either a homework/essay question, or you have been spoilt by the idea that a rig of ML's perfect for every occasion, like so many others have. *addition - by the looks of thetechguy92's post, he's one of those people..* last longer and aren't as tacky. :D With MLs you can litterally fade the CMY to another value and it looks like a much nicer transition!I believe thats called a live move :).. Nicer? At times yes, but by no means always! T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinntec Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 I don't think scrollers are on the way out, I am doing a musical next week with just conventionals and a few scrollers. In previous shows I have used loads of movers to provide multiple specials in the main with some effects, but they were not appropriate for the current show. However in an ideal world what I would really like to have is a CMY gizzmo to attach to a conventional profile so I can smoothly change colours live. I seem to remember seeing something for S4 some time ago but costing as much as an ML to hire I seem to remember?Peter Vincent, amateur - but serious - LD, UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bleasdale Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 With MLs you can litterally fade the CMY to another value and it looks like a much nicer transition!I believe thats called a live move :D.. Nicer? At times yes, but by no means always! Yes it is a live move, of course it is. Any fade (intentional or not) while a fixture is above 0 intensity is a live move. I have always seen it that way. But what I meant was that it is much more of a smoother transition. Maybe not always, but alot! I would by far prefer that over the tacky noise and movement of a scroller - even the best scrollers! Best, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simschr Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Only for the fact that MLs are quieter, last longer and arnt as tacky. If they're that 'tacky' how come so many West End shows use them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the kid Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 The thing is movers weigh quite a bit. For something that can do half decent CYM you are looking at 20kg give a bit more. Scrollers - a couple of K each, + a psu with my bars (I hear now I have about 100kg a bar) 4 movers and I'm done I could have alot of lights and scrollers for the same weight, and prob hire price (I have never really looked in to hires). In terms of good kit I honestly have never used them but I love the idea of Apollo double string scrollers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul the paranoid lampy Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 they still have their place, I did a show last year, the main rig was 16 S4 profiles with scrollers, the Director wanted so many colours that it was the only way to do it. Movers would have been too expencive, wrong colour temp, too noisey, and way over the top for what was needed. think of them as another tool in your very large Designers toolbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indyld Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 A few years ago I did a tour where the LD used Palcos (I think they were 5s not 3s) to uplight some 4/5m high scrims. The LEDs were fairly new and having a bit of a tryout (ie the hire company had just got some and were punting them to every LD in the land). The fixtures needed to do four distinct colours and be punchy enough to make it up the scrims (uh oh, I hear you say). Now, not only were they not really punchy enough but they also could only manage one of the four colours required (and nearly 16 million others that we didn't need). After the first date, they were swapped out for PAR64 floor cans with Chroma Qs and custom strings of the required Lee gels. They did the job. It's all about results, horses for courses, tools for the job etc. When scrollers first came out, I'm sure that there were those that said that it was the end of the gel frame. BTW in the States they seem to be still very keen on the dual strings and Seachangers etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaStudent Posted August 11, 2009 Author Share Posted August 11, 2009 Moderation: snip...I belong to a small lighting company and would like to stay annonymous to make sure the community answers to my questions are objective and not 'colored' by my identity. Like I said - I am "learning the ropes" in this industry that is soaked with opinionated & experienced folks whose advise and experience I truly value. This is a great forum and I hope to be using it extensively. thx everybody! if you have more comments, please share.. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryson Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Moderation: I've been through and deleted or edited a bunch of posts about spelling, or homework, or whatever. Here's an idea: if you don't want to help, just don't help. I'm tired of the snippy posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jay Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Some people don't like scrollers because it requires people to think!I.e stratigicly placing colours a certain way. I live scrollers, easy to fix, Easy to program and just easy to use. I would choose them over ML's any day. I can have exact colours that I want with the right colour temperature and have the exact focus I want depending in the fixture I use. Dont forget no every ML has CMY, just a colour wheen which in turn is a scroller and looks worse than a scroller if changed live! I don't think they will die out for a long time. Hairspray used over 100 scrollers. Oliver which opened less than a year ago used over 250 scroller and Sister Act which openeded 2 months ago used 250 Wybron Coloram II scrollers. I think this proves that they wont go out for a very long time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul the paranoid lampy Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 In Addition to what I said earlier, and in agrement of Toshiboy, You do need a bit of thought with them, and a good lighting desk if doing a complex show, (I try to think of them as a moving light) and this makes it easier when plotting as you can use Move on Dark etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve h Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 I would by far prefer that over the tacky noise and movement of a scroller - even the best scrollers! Try a longer timing on your move on dark or however you set it up and you'll find them nice and quiet! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Of course, there are movers that don't move but do colour, stuff like the High End Colour Command which also has an incandescent light source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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