Olliedem-c Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Hi all.. I'm recording a live set for my band this thursday night, we are a trio and heres the channel list... We have done a tech rehearsal and this is the plan. 1. Lead vocal (condensor with wind shield)2. Acoustic DI3 Bass Di (from amp)4 Bass Vox - sm58 (with wind shield)5 Bass drum (electronic kick- DI)6 snare mic (sm57)7 HI-Hat/ splash (condensor) and finally on channel 8 I want a crowd mic for air/audience its a small setup, about 50 people in a little room, recorded onto a zoom hd16. what is the best way to get the audience without it sounding like a few people, which seems to happen when I tried to do this in the past. Any advice would be great.. put a bit of advertising into this and want NO MISTAKES!!!! bar bum notes and forgotten lyrics!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Beech Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 The channel setup should be fine, not quite sure on the wind shield idea but it should be ok if it works for you. The issue with the crowd mic is how much PA you get into that channel, and where it sits in time with the direct channels. If the mic points at the crowd (tip : this is a good idea) you'll get reflections and off axis sound from the PA which will muddy the mix somewhat. Also, getting 50 people to not sound like a few people is tricky. It IS a few people. and in a small room with a band (all be it not a loud band I can assume) the sound of the PA is going to be louder than 50 people. This has the obvious effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olliedem-c Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 The channel setup should be fine, not quite sure on the wind shield idea but it should be ok if it works for you. The issue with the crowd mic is how much PA you get into that channel, and where it sits in time with the direct channels. If the mic points at the crowd (tip : this is a good idea) you'll get reflections and off axis sound from the PA which will muddy the mix somewhat. Also, getting 50 people to not sound like a few people is tricky. It IS a few people. and in a small room with a band (all be it not a loud band I can assume) the sound of the PA is going to be louder than 50 people. This has the obvious effects. hmmm, the wind shield seems to work at reducing the pops and rumbles without putting up a pop shield, and not using one was not working.. anyhow... you are correct about being small numbers.. I find even when the crowd is 100+ it sounds like 5 people!!mic behind crowd, or beside pa pointing toward crowd?? I'm thinking high as possible behind crowd pointing into centre of room??? I'm also aware that one channel isn't really enough, but beggers cant be choosers!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndenim Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I would suggest a condenser high above the crowd.As far back as you can. If the mic is aimed at people you may pick up conversation, so a slight angle upwards would pick up more of an audience,rather than the people nearest.It may also help if you let the audience know before hand that you are recording, encouraging people to whistle clap and cheer as hard as they can. Everyone loves to think that they may be on a recording!Maybe you could have two mics and mix them in later.What mics have you got? Set the level pretty high, I assume you are going to master the recording later? A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on. Haha, well and truly beaten to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olliedem-c Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 2x Ev 4102x Behringer b11x Ev Raven2x Shure pg8158'S57'S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Beech Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 .....You could throw in some more musicless crowd noise from.. elsewhere.... Not that I'd ever do such a thing..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olliedem-c Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 .....You could throw in some more musicless crowd noise from.. elsewhere.... Not that I'd ever do such a thing..... I'm shocked and horrifed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndenim Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 .....You could throw in some more musicless crowd noise from.. elsewhere.... Not that I'd ever do such a thing..... I'm shocked and horrifed... I was just thinking that, who will know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killyp Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 FWIW, I feel you'd be better off using an SM58 for lead vocals. Most 'good studio vocal mics' of the condenser kind tend to be next to useless on stage as you just can't get the gain before feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olliedem-c Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 .....You could throw in some more musicless crowd noise from.. elsewhere.... Not that I'd ever do such a thing..... I'm shocked and horrifed... I was just thinking that, who will know? Ah no, would rather have the 5 people than do that to be honest.. the kind of night it is, the crowd listens and responds well, and everyone there will end up getting a copy, I would have a bit of a problem giving out something that isnt 100% on the level.. prob no-one wouild know, but I'm a bit of a pain like that.. I know its done a lot, but...hmmmmm no I dont think so. anyway folks, will want to do it again in the future, so need to learn!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndenim Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 My opinion would be to use the B1 for crowd noise. I know, it may seem strange, but the large diaphragm may pick up more ambient noise than a dynamic. IIRC you can ' roll off' the LF and attenuate if need be? A good EQ within the mid range may also boost the wanted freqs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 .....You could throw in some more musicless crowd noise from.. elsewhere.... Not that I'd ever do such a thing..... Well, I'd do such a thing...quite often! It's not free but THE SOUND EFFECTS LIBRARY has quite a good selection of crowd noises in everything from a general hubbub to light applause to raucous cheering. The trick is to let the real effects lead you in the selection of the er...let's call them "augmented" effects rather than fake! Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Imagine the result when some idiot in the crowd has a whistle! Next night, different city, but not such a good gig. Use night 2 crowd with night 1 band - nobody notices. Since when did a live recording have to be live? As for audience mics - the best mic will be the one with the deepest null - and this needs to be aimed at the PA, the receptive side direction then doesn't matter, but getting rid of the PA does! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addoaddo Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 If you can on the desk try not to put the crowd mic through the PA, may sound obvious but will effectt the sound. If the desk as groups try and take the recooding from the group with all mics and the PA from the main stereo pair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I think we'd not even considered anybody would be daft enough to stick this through a PA - nobody has mentioned this. You don't know Arthur Bostrum do you? You sound a little French? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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