What Desk/FOH/Monitors????

[singhhardip]

Hi guys,

im new to this forum and have scouring the heaps of information that has been put on the boards, which has been of great help.

 

I have 3 questions but firstly abit of background info to make it easier to answer.

 

Firstly im a musician not an engineer so this is all new to me so I'll apologise if I seem alittle thick with my queries. :P

I play for a bhangra band(im sure one of you guys has probably engineered us at a mela/festival).

After being unable to find a local PA company to fulfill our requirements, I've become very interested in buying my own PA gear and learning how it all works.

 

As a band, we're basically 1 main vocalist, 6 musicians and 3 b.v's. we mainly do weddings and parties in hotels or big halls from 500-1000ppl all indoors. Hope this info has painted the pic.

 

 

Question 1. The desk I think I want is the A&H gl2400(which ive used alittle) what would be the best place to source one of these from? would I be able to have a 6way monitor mix, delay, reverb on this desk as it has 6auxs and a 7x4matrix?

 

Question 2. I've heard the martin audio h3 + s218 as FOH and really liked it, im after about 4-5kw system, would this be good? are there any other systems you would recomend??anybody got any I could listen to?

 

Question 3. As monitors we've used the MB4's, which are an awesome speaker interms of spl(isn't it a rcf driver, which 1?) but they're £1300ish each new, could you recommend any replacements??must be relatively same interms of power as MB4?

 

I apologise about the lack of knowledge within my questions and hope somebody could enlighten me or even show me as im in Birmingham and would be willing to travel for a demo.

I understand there are other things I need to consider (amplifiers, outboard, mics, wiring....) but I think I need to be sure of these things first.

 

Thanks for reading.

 

Hardip.

[smalljoshua]

You don't say where abouts you are based, this would help us a lot in answering your question.

 

Josh

 

Moderation: Yes he does..., Brum.

[haymere]

Hiya

 

GL2400 great desk if you can afford it also same for the Martin Blackline but there are plenty of other systems which are good i.e.

 

1. D & B C7

2. HK audio projector

 

Wedges are all much of a muchness and you should be able to get a 15 & 1 wedge for about £350 from ebay or concert trade maybe also LMC

[singhhardip]

You don't say where abouts you are based, this would help us a lot in answering your question.

 

Josh

 

I apologise about the lack of knowledge within my questions and hope somebody could enlighten me or even show me as im in Birmingham and would be willing to travel for a demo.

I understand there are other things I need to consider (amplifiers, outboard, mics, wiring....) but I think I need to be sure of these things first.

 

:P

[smalljoshua]

You say you have had people engineer you at festivals and the likes, can you not go to these people/companies and ask them to do the same for you as a band?

 

Josh

[Matt Riley]

If I were speccing it then my idea would run slightly like this:

 

1) That desk doesn't have a built in reverb... try something like the TC M1 as a good starter.

 

2) Don't spec speaker systems according to watts. As long as the amp is big enough then watts don't matter. Think about SPL. How big a venue, and how loud? What shape - short end of the rectangle, long end of a rectangle, or in the round?

 

3)Martin F15, Turbo TXD 15M, Old Martin LE400. If they have to be biamped I'd run them off behringer DCX 2496 or bss minidrives, depending on budget, and probs thomann TA2400s or QSC PLX2 if you've got the money.

 

In terms of suppliers then if all else fails, then AC will be able to get hold of the stuff. Remember that no-one pays list price!

 

M

[singhhardip]

You say you have had people engineer you at festivals and the likes, can you not go to these people/companies and ask them to do the same for you as a band?

 

Josh

 

Yeah we have, but it was our engineers duty so I stayed out the way, in the last 3yrs we've had about 6 companies and it starts off well then either they inflate their prices extortionately or the service goes down the pan. I'd say we do about 30 gigs a yr with hired PA all around the country from edinburgh to southampton...

 

So as I'd like to get into this as abit of a hobby and sideline business I want to do it properly.

with the help of the professionals.

[smalljoshua]

There are only a few members on here who I would trust to be able to really advise you on gigs this size in a one night per venue context.

 

Paraphrasing what a couple of those people have said. The Turbosound TQ440/TQ445 is apparently a very good and loud speaker and at £2100 each retail I would hope so too. There is also an Active Powered Version that negates the need for an Amplifier.

 

I have however used the GL2400 so I can comment on that. It is a great desk that is well made. However if you want 6 Monitor Mixes Plus effects you're really looking at the GL2800 to give you enough Aux sends for 6 Monitor Mixes plus Effects.

 

Changed active to powered at Rob's request to avoid confusion.

 

Josh

[singhhardip]

If I were speccing it then my idea would run slightly like this:

 

1) That desk doesn't have a built in reverb... try something like the TC M1 as a good starter.

 

2) Don't spec speaker systems according to watts. As long as the amp is big enough then watts don't matter. Think about SPL. How big a venue, and how loud? What shape - short end of the rectangle, long end of a rectangle, or in the round?

 

3)Martin F15, Turbo TXD 15M, Old Martin LE400. If they have to be biamped I'd run them off behringer DCX 2496 or bss minidrives, depending on budget, and probs thomann TA2400s or QSC PLX2 if you've got the money.

 

In terms of suppliers then if all else fails, then AC will be able to get hold of the stuff. Remember that no-one pays list price!

 

M

 

Cheers Matt

 

Also with that desk will I be able to have a 6way mix with delay and reverb??

 

Ive managed to get our spec list and our engineer has put on there Lexicon PCM70, Yamaha SPX990......

 

he's quite old skool so im guessing these are old units and there must be better units similar to these in the market...

 

In terms of venues, its difficult as their all different some hold 500 some 1000, some have carpeted floors some are wooden floors, high roof(echo) and low roof(10ft) I need a versatile happy medium.

 

I think we need a good short throw, simply being most of our gigs the dance floor normally is square directly infront of us (holding about 200ppl)and the older buggers who sit nearer the back always will complain about the loudness.

 

So for E.g if I were to go with the Blackline H3 + S218, the spec says amp needed 800 - 2000w into 4ohms, what would you say is ideal???

(amp say Crown Macro Tech MA-5002VZ 1800 x 2 @ 4ohms , or is this too much/less) I don't wanna push then too much but I want them earning their keep.

 

for your 3rd answer I think I need to do alitte research interms of the SSE MB4 and find out what components are in there. from that I can look at similarities.

[Rob_Beech]

Lets call it "powered", particularly in this case as it saves the confusion as it is already an active box, meaning it requires 2 amplifier channels per box.

[singhhardip]

There are only a few members on here who I would trust to be able to really advise you on gigs this size in a one night per venue context.

 

Paraphrasing what a couple of those people have said. The Turbosound TQ440/TQ445 is apparently a very good and loud speaker and at £2100 each retail I would hope so too. There is also an Active Version that negates the need for an Amplifier.

 

I have however used the GL2400 so I can comment on that. It is a great desk that is well made. However if you want 6 Monitor Mixes Plus effects you're really looking at the GL2800 to give you enough Aux sends for 6 Monitor Mixes plus Effects.

 

Josh

 

Cheers josh thought so,

 

any idea what these SHOULD retail at brand new and 2nd hand?

 

Also, not keen on POWERED(hha..) FOH, I prefer passive.

Thanks

[smalljoshua]

To be honest, people like Rob are the best to advise you any further than I have already as I don't have any further experience with the equipment being discussed.

 

I bow to those with the greater knowledge.

 

Josh

[MarkPAman]

Unless you are going to be running the desk in a rather unusual way, then there's not enough aux sends. You need one for each monitor send plus one for each effects send. Matrix sends are not usually used for effects or monitors, as they only take feeds from the groups, L, R & M outs. *

 

You really need to step up to something like a GL2800.

 

 

 

*This is on the GL2400 - I know some desks (especially many digital ones) have other options)

[singhhardip]

Unless you are going to be running the desk in a rather unusual way, then there's not enough aux sends. You need one for each monitor send plus one for each effects send. Matrix sends are not usually used for effects or monitors, as they only take feeds from the groups, L, R & M outs. *

 

You really need to step up to something like a GL2800.

 

 

 

*This is on the GL2400 - I know some desks (especially many digital ones) have other options)

 

Yeah thought so, just needed an educated confirmation.

the GL2800 it is then.

 

Thanks.

[charlyfarly]

Ive managed to get our spec list and our engineer has put on there Lexicon PCM70, Yamaha SPX990......

 

he's quite old skool so im guessing these are old units and there must be better units similar to these in the market...

He might be old skool (and there certainly is nothing wrong with that!) and those units might be getting on a bit but they are still in the top favourites as FX units and are seen on a lot of riders and in FX racks all over the world!

 

Yamaha SPX900 and Yamaha SPX1000 and the latest SPX2000 are all decent units.

The Lexicon has gone through to the PCM81, PCM91 and now the PCM96. Again all very slick products.