Newbie wishing to setup a midi to DMX light show

[RooMcKeller]

Hi,

I have a midi keyboard (eventually, Cubase SX3) and an NJD MDC-128 midi to DMX convertor. I also have 4 powered DMX LED par cans.

I want to be able to control the colours and on/off functions with this setup, but no matter what I do, nothing happens when I press notes up and down the keyboard.

The leads are fine, the MDC-128 registers a signal from the keyboard and the LED par can registers a DMX lead plugged into it.

So far, anyone I've spoken to is speaking jargon too technical for me to understand, but one kind soul directed me here, saying there may be people here that use this kind of setup and may be able to talk me through to get my setup working.

Can anyone PLEASE talk to me in layman's terms so that I understand at all?

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks!!!

Roo

[jimbo7744]

Sorry if I'm teaching you to suck egg's or reading too much in to the little you have posted, but have you programmed what you want the light's to do when it receives a midi signal?

 

I.e, told the midi controller what colour, effect you want?

 

Jimbo

[RooMcKeller]

I'm totally at the beginning, sorry, so I'll suck as many eggs as you want if it means getting this setup to work. I just assumed you plugged it all in and started tapping notes on the keyboard, which would correspond with colours on the par cans...

I take it it's not as simple as that then? ** laughs out loud **

Any help is appreciated. Ta

[jimbo7744]

This appears to be a manual for the NJD MDC-128,

http://www.djsoundkit.co.uk/PDF/NJ156.pdf

although the web link states it's a NJ156? Guess that's a typo from the djsoundkit website guys as the manual does say NJD MDC-128.

After a brief search of the NJD site, I didn't find a manual.

 

As for Midi to DMX and not being a musician myself, I have very limited knowledge, so hopefully someone will be along soon who uses this kit, or has a better knowledge of midi to DMX and how it all works.

But from a very quick read of the manual, it's not quite as straight forward as plug-and-play.

 

Jimb

[RooMcKeller]

Yeh, exactly.

I've already got the manual for both the NJD-128 and the LED par cans. My problem is, I may as well be looking at a chinese menu for all the good it's doing me. There's a lot of technical blarb in the manuals, but they explain things as if we already know the A to Z of DMX, which I don't. That's my problem at the moment... I need someone who has already set something like this up and can talk me through it from the beginning.

I'm a real-time programmer of midi. I'm familiar with CC messages, but I've only utilized them with foot pedals and modulation wheels etc. I can program midi to get what result I need for any type of musical phrasing. But midi to DMX is a whole new ballgame I have no knowledge in.

Hopefully someone will pick up on tyhis thread and point me in the right direction.

Thanks

[jimbo7744]

As for the technical Blarb in the manual, that's there to tell you how it works and the Blueroom has a Wiki incase you want to learn about DMX http://www.blue-room.org.uk/wiki/DMX

 

And as for your specific equipment, can you not ask NJD or your re-seller for support?

 

As this is a theatrical and entertainment forum, NJD product's are not widely used by the majority of members on here.

However there are some members that maybe able to help you more than I did, (searching to find the manual to save another Br member who knows more about midi to DMX but not your specific unit) or how YOU helped yourself by finding out what you were purchasing, and how it would work :o

 

Maybe someone on djforums.com might be more familiar with your equipment and it's application if you need help before Monday?

 

Jimbo

[RooMcKeller]

Hi,

I already spoke to a few people at NJD and they didn't really know what I was talking about, surprisingly. One of them wasn't aware that they even sold such a product! Lest to say I don't rate THEIR technical support.

I'll certainly check out the wiki you mentioned, thanks.

[RooMcKeller]

Hi,

I understand that you have to use midi note on/off messages and also CC numbers to communicate with the lights. But, how do I find out which CC and particular note on the keyboard will trigger each light to perform a particular command, ie; red, green etc.

Is there a chart somewhere that explains the relation between midi CC messages and DMX language? I think that's all I need. I may be able to figure out the rest for myself, I'm a pretty quick learner.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks

[collism]

I have never used the DMX to midi convertor from NJD but having has a quick look at the manual here is a few preliminary things you need to get sorted first (apologies if some of this is stating the obvious)

 

1. Do you know which midi channel your midi device is transmitting? (1-16) make sure this is selected on the back of the MDC-128.

 

2. Set the DMX address on your LED par cans - this will almost certainly involve the use of switches on the unit. Hopefully the instruction manual will tell you how to do this. Fixtures such as LED Par cans are likely to use 4 or 5 channels so make sure you leave some gaps between fixtures.

 

3. Wire up all data and power connections - my advice would be to start with one of the cans and get that working first. The DMX line should have a terminator - although will probably work ok for now without one.

 

4. Start sending midi notes from the midi source - remembering that the midi note number for each DMX channel is actually one less then the DMX channel.

 

Hope that helps - for a full description look at the manual:

http://www.premier-solutions.biz/User%20Gu.../NJD/MDC128.PDF

[Dave Brown]

The MDC-128 simply translates MIDI Notes or CC messages (numbered 0-127) into DMX messages on the same channel. For example:

 

- hit note C4 (MIDI note number 60) at full velocity, the MDC transmits a value of 255 on DMX Ch 60.

- hit note C3 (MIDI note number 48) at 50% velocity, the MDC transmits a value of 127 on DMX Ch 48.

 

Same goes for CC messages:

 

- move the kbd modulation wheel (CC #1), the MDC transmits a variable value on DMX Ch 1.

- move the kbd volume fader (CC #7), the MDC transmits a variable value on DMX Ch 7.

 

So, first check the MDC's MIDI Channel (1-16) matches the channel your MIDI keyboard is transmitting on. Then, choose the MDC's MIDI mode, whether it responds to NoteOn or CC MIDI messages. (Both done with switches on the MDC.)

 

Then, put your light into "DMX receive" mode, and set the light's DMX address - probably using DIP switches on the light. For testing, start with one light, setup to DMX address 0. The light will now respond to NoteOn or CC messages.

 

So, how do you actually make the light do something? Well, that depends on the model of light, and how many DMX channels it uses. Let's assume your light has 4 DMX channels, Dimmer/Red/Green/Blue, and you are sending NoteOns to the MDC...

 

- For a red colour : Press and HOLD two keys, C-1 (MIDI Note 0 = Dimmer) and C#-1 (MIDI Note 1 = Red)

- For a blue colour : Press and HOLD two keys, C-1 (MIDI Note 0 = Dimmer) and D#-1 (MIDI Note 3 = Blue)

 

It occurs to me that you might not be seeing anything because you are simply bashing keys one at a time. You need to hold the notes down to activate the dimmer and specify a colour.

 

Hope that helps. If you still have no luck, please tell us what model & make of MIDI keyboard & LED parcan you own, and I can be more specific.

 

Cheers,

Dave

[RooMcKeller]

Hi,

Yeh, got all that. I'm trying to do what you say and now have a chart that tells me what midi note numbers. I've done a couple of experiments and still nothing. The midi keyboard is a simple Roland PC-180a, but I'm writing the midi messages (note on/off & CC) with Cubase SX3 and transimitting on midi channel 1 which is being picked up by the MDC-128 via the flashing red light on the front. I can't see any switches on the MDC-128 apart from the dip switches on the back that set the midi channel, so unsure if it's set for note on/off or CC. The red light flashes on both, and it's a recent model as they've started to make them again, so I assume that function is incorporated in the new model.

The par can is an American DJ 64b LED Pro. The manual is at http://www.americandj.com/pdffiles/64bledpro.pdf

The DMX channels are 001 to 512, set digitally via an LED screen on the back of the light. I currently have it set to 001.

I'm sure there's something simple I'm not doing.

I'm going to take the lead and the 2 units to the shop that made up the DMX lead tomorrow too, just to check they definitely have wired it up correctly.

Thanks for your help!!!

[paulears]

Dave brown's response is excellent. I suspect the snag is simply that in this raw state, it's going to be very difficult to get nice useful lighting. You can spend time in the cubase editor and try some obvious things. Assuming the default midi to DMX does the one to one midi channel to DMX channel Dave mentions, then the first step is to look at the LED DMX spec. How many channels and what do they do. Some have 5 channels, 3 of which do R,G and B and the others pre-programmed effects or control functions. Some have a channel dedicated to overall brightness. In this case, this needs to be full on, and then the rgb channels should work. All these can be drawn in with the pencil tool, and don't forget that you also need to draw in or type in the level.

 

This kind of control never works really well, because you only have ten fingers. what is better is when usuing 'cleverer' controllers where the midi inputs can fire off pre-programmed states, or steps in a cue stack. Then, hitting C might be able to light everything in red. Hitting it again, might make it go blue etc. This is neither DMX or MIDI cleverness, but programming. MIDI is good as a trigger, but rubbish as a direct control, in the same way that a lighting control with 512 faders and bump buttons would be for lighting.

 

So get the manual for the lights. Set the DMX address to a convenient music keyboard key MIDI note number (as mentioned above), and see if this works. You may need (depending on the LED) at least 2 notes to be on to make it light.

 

 

I remember very well Jim Davidson being really excited about linking the lighting controller to a music keyboard. He then said to the op, "so when the band hit the first note, play an F chord" - the op said "what's an F chord?". It hadn't occured to him not everybody was musical.

[Chris Adam]

Hi,

Yeh, got all that. I'm trying to do what you say and now have a chart that tells me what midi note numbers. I've done a couple of experiments and still nothing. The midi keyboard is a simple Roland PC-180a, but I'm writing the midi messages (note on/off & CC) with Cubase SX3 and transimitting on midi channel 1 which is being picked up by the MDC-128 via the flashing red light on the front. I can't see any switches on the MDC-128 apart from the dip switches on the back that set the midi channel, so unsure if it's set for note on/off or CC. The red light flashes on both, and it's a recent model as they've started to make them again, so I assume that function is incorporated in the new model.

The par can is an American DJ 64b LED Pro. The manual is at http://www.americandj.com/pdffiles/64bledpro.pdf

The DMX channels are 001 to 512, set digitally via an LED screen on the back of the light. I currently have it set to 001.

I'm sure there's something simple I'm not doing.

I'm going to take the lead and the 2 units to the shop that made up the DMX lead tomorrow too, just to check they definitely have wired it up correctly.

Thanks for your help!!!

 

If you had the cable made up for you at a local shop, it's worth opening the connectors and making sure it's wired with correct polarity for your pars / controller. If you are handy with a solder bolt, try switching pins 2 +3 round on one end to see if that helps. (or use a phase reversal adapter - available from maplins etc) Your pars would still no doubt say that they are recieving DMX, even if the polarity is wrong, but you wouldn't get anything from them. A lot of DJ kit uses reversed polarity, and I'm sure NJD are one of them.

 

I too am sorry if that's teaching you to suck eggs, but it's something that catches many a person out. I too have been on the recieveing end of it when using DJ gear amongst pro gear.

 

hope that helps.

[RooMcKeller]

Hi guys,

Right!!! I've finally got the light to work, chained up 2 and they both fire off in tandem, both on channel 1. I was hitting notes 1 octave higher on the keyboard. For some reason, instead of the midi note numbers being C -1 for 0 etc, it was C -2 and upwards that fired them off. You were right though, the LED cans have 3, 6 & 7 channel modes. I'm using 7 channel mode (the addy for the manual for the LED cans is above) as there are more functions availabel to me that way.

F# -2 is the dimmer note (channel 7)

C -2 is the red (channel 1)

C# -2 is the green (channel 2)

D -2 is the blue (channel 3)

I'm just stuck on 2 things now. In the manual, channel 6 with a value of 32-63 sets a dim - bright function (fade, I presume). I've tried this using the methods you guys have so kindly given me, with CC, and nothing happens apart from on/off. Can one of you have a look at the manual and tell me what I'm not seeing, if that's ok?

Also, if I set DMX channel 2 on light 002, what do I need to do midi note wise to fire that one off independantly from light set to DMX address 001?

Thanks so much for all your help! I have visions of a mini 'Jean Michel Jarre' rig floating around in my head already! haha. I've got loads of DMX lighting and can't wait to start figuring it all out.

Cheers guys!!!

[Dave Brown]

I'm just stuck on 2 things now. In the manual, channel 6 with a value of 32-63 sets a dim - bright function (fade, I presume). I've tried this using the methods you guys have so kindly given me, with CC, and nothing happens apart from on/off. Can one of you have a look at the manual and tell me what I'm not seeing, if that's ok?

 

Unfortunately, the manual isn't clear what those values ("Dim->Bright", "Bright->Dim" etc) actually do. You'll just need to fiddle and see what happens.

 

One thing to remember, the MDC box doubles-up MIDI values (range 0-127) to create DMX values (range 0-255). So if you want to transmit 48 on DMX channel 6, you need to set CC#6 = 24.

 

if I set DMX channel 2 on light 002, what do I need to do midi note wise to fire that one off independantly from light set to DMX address 001?

 

The second light should be set to DMX start address 8, not 2.

 

Each light uses a unique range of addresses - 7 channels for each light in your case. So if you have 4 identical lights, you would set up their start addresses as 1, 8, 15, 22.

 

Then MIDI CC #1-7 = Light A, MIDI CC #8-14 = Light B, and so on.

 

Dave.