Private Party

[rooftop]

I would seriously propose that given the budget for this event (3 course dindins for 300 is going to be, what, £4k+VAT?), that you seriously think about skipping the coffee and mints and look at getting some professional help for the electrical issues and other event related issues.

 

I presume the picture of the meter is in a garage or similar and that the consumer unit above it is feeding just that area. (that is one hefty steel amoured cable coming out of the side of it - what does that feed? Exterior floodlights at 500w each perhaps?)

 

How do you propose getting 3ph out of the system?

[Nick LX]

Have had an electrician in to quote for a 3ph 63amp socket installed, coming off the main distribution board (so it will be permanent). That seems to work out cheaper than getting a gennie plus fuel for a night.

 

The distro board/CU above the meter feeds a swimming pool shed, and thats it. Nothing else. There is a pretty hefty distro board to the right of the meter feeding everything else. And, me, tap into that? The closest I'm getting to that electricity supply is taking a photo of it. I don't want to die here!

 

 

Look at these:

 

http://housewd.co.uk/power/DSC_0147.jpg

http://housewd.co.uk/power/DSC_0144.jpg

 

Just to clarify: The closest I am getting to this electricity supply (except plugging in a 63amp tp cable) is taking those photos. An experienced electrician is quoting me for the installation of a 63amp tp socket.

 

Oh and Ynot -> No offence taken. I know exactly why you wouldn't want any one not qualified to even touch that supply.

themadhippy -> Professionals did the installation, so I can only take their word for it being correct and complying to standards.

I'll also speak to the bouncers and enquire about SIA.

[emsgeorge]

If the door supervisors are employed BY YOU DIRECTLY (IE not a security company), then YOU need an SIA badge as well as them (as technically YOU are their employer).

 

If they are ticket checkers, then they dont need a licence - but the only place they will be allowed is at the front entrance, checking tickets and no more. If a fight breaks out, and they assist, be prepared for not only the people fighting to be arrested, but them also, and you for employing them without a licence.

 

The police are well aware about the SIA and licences now, so if they arent displaying, and you get paid a visit (remember that it only takes mrs miggins down the road to moan about the noise levels), you will be in hot water. There is a power to close down parties as well I seem to remember (will look it up and post back).

 

You may get away with only needing security guard badged SIA staff - as the premises (IE your garden) wont need to be licensed as a place to sell alcohol. At least they will be cheaper than door staff rates.

 

 

The way to partially 'get around' this is to make them volunteers. According to the SIA, a volunteer doens't need a badge at all. They can get paid 'expenses', and as long as these expenses arent stupid (Heres a new car for the nights work, thanks), then they arent considered to be employed.

 

Have had a little experience of the 'volunteer' bit above - as soon as there was trouble expected, the police shut it all down, siting 'no proper security' as a reason.

[rooftop]

But let's not get carried away - this is a private dinner and disco for invited friends and family. Chances of any trouble brewing are slim. I know that if we held a similar function at our (licensed) venue we wouldn't employ security as default.

 

A couple of 'in costume' bouncers on the gate with a guest list is probably all that is needed.

 

All subject to OP's risk assessment of course :D

[Big_L]

As I've always understood it* bouncers/doormen/overlookers/door supervisors (whatever you want to call them) only need to be SIA badged if they're controlling access (undertaking 'manned guarding' of) to a licensed premises (which would include an event under a TEN).

 

In this instance the two issues seem to be a) if you have a license/TEN and b) whether its genuinely 'open to the public'. More importantly, there is an exemption which would seem to allow say a teacher at a school event, or a parent (but only one who is there for another reason i.e. they're a guest) at a birthday party, to do that, without needing to be badged. The nature of the event in question would seem to imply that there might be several people who are in the latter category at the event anyway.

 

Of course, if you genuinely feel there is likely to be trouble; then regardless of any legal requirement, having someone who is well trained is going to be far more effective than using your rugby playing mate, and might be a wise decision. Although, as ever YMMV and IANAL!

 

* and a view that seems to be supported by the SIA

 

edit: Beaten to it by emsgeorge...that'll teach me to write something, have lunch, and then post it!

[Ynot]

OK.

 

I've been relatively quiet on this one - except for my comments yesterday.

However, the more I look back on what you're planning the more I feel that there's a HUGE chance that you could be getting in WAY over your head, Cheech.

 

Have you looked through the thread in Power about feeding mains to a marquee...?

I'm not a qualified sparks, but do understand a fair bit of what's been discussed there - but there's a LOT that is above me!

 

The event you're talking about is quite a large one and really should be planned and executed by an experienced and reputable company because there is a LOT that can go wrong - and potentially will.

 

I suspect this is your parents' house, yes? I can appreciate you may be trying to get things done 'on the cheap' for them, but along the way you could well be missing some major issues - and asking questions here on the BR is no guarantee that you'll get all the answers.

 

I'd ask some other questions of you:

The marquee - presumably being erected by the suppliers? What flooring are they supplying - both for the dining area and the dance area?

Staging - who is supplying/erecting this, and is it of a suitable type for outdoor use? (ie have you allowed for the fact that scaff legs WILL sink into the lawn if placed with no support?)

Dimmer locations - have you identified a fully protected site for the beta packs and any distro that is 100% out of the way for potential rain leakage?

Lantern positions - similar to dimmers - can you guarantee that they will be well away from the marquee walls/ceiling - condensation can be as bad as rainfall...

Cable runs - do you have enough cable of sufficient size and rating to a) supply the TPNE from the garage to the marquee and b) to feed the lanterns etc inside without creating ANY potential trip hazards?

Mains feed - the 3-ph in the garage - what protection in the form of breakers/ELCB/MCBO etc is this electrician providing? Do you know what he SHOULD be providing for this sort of job? Does HE know what is required...? Does he know precisely what you intend to use the supply for, or has he just agreed to install a 63A Ceeform socket on the wall...?

 

Your MINIMUM power for lighting, calculated from your list in the OP comes to almost 110A - that's not allowing for any surges on power-up for the discharge sources. Neither is it allowing for any peaks when the PA is up at full tilt. How have you calculated that 2 ph of this 63A supply is going to be sufficient? Do you KNOW what gear the DJ is bringing/using and what max power he needs? What about his disco lights...?

You do mention safety lighting - so the question back to you is simple - what happens if the power does trip? Unless it's early evening, there will be little in the way of external natural light - especially if the marquee is lined. So what backup do you have planned to a) stop people panicking and b) give them sufficient illumination to exit the marquee should that be necessary?

 

All in all, I think you would be best to stop any thoughts of a DIY event and contact a firm who specialise in this sort of event and leave EVERYTHING to them. You may be able to specify what you'd like in terms of lighting and sound, but to be honest I'd just leave them to it. There are just SO many ways this can go wrong, and those are multiplied when you factor that you are still just a student... Sorry to drag this topic back on to that old chestnut, but that's a fact of life.

[Nick LX]

To keep is short:

 

Marquee erected on tennis court with carpet supplied by the company erecting it.

No staging.

Dimmers -> inside tennis court shed - leak proof

Lanterns -> not closer than 50cm to the marquee

Cable runs -> All 63amp (1p and 3p) are 16mm2. Cable runs are the opposite end to the exits.

Electrician knows exactly what the ceeform socket is for. I said to him:

 

I need a 63amp tp ceeform socket installed onto the distro board, so I can use it for a party where high power lanterns will be used.

MCCB will be proecting the 63amp socket, and on the main distro (63tp to 3x 63sp), each output socket has a 30mA RCD as well as a MCB.

 

I am supplying all lighting. DJ is just bring his 2 decks, 2 CDJs and a mixer, however I will have a look over trying to reduce the amount of current needed.

 

Safety lighting -> I will be asking the neighbours whether I can borrow a 13amp socket from their house, for 10x 100 watt outdoor floods in case of power trip/failiure. (4x inside, 6x outside).

Plus the door men will have torches to assist anyone who needs assistance.

 

The doormen are more to keep unwanted people out. Considering this is also a 21st, we just want to be sure that no one that wasn't invited can get in.

 

Finally the electrician installing the ceeform socket, will be with me during the set up to make sure everything is earthed correctly etc.

[tokm]

Safety lighting -> I will be asking the neighbours whether I can borrow a 13amp socket from their house, for 10x 100 watt outdoor floods in case of power trip/failiure. (4x inside, 6x outside).

Plus the door men will have torches to assist anyone who needs assistance.

What happens if the 13a supply from the neighbours cuts out for some reason?

 

Doormen with torches are useful yes, but you seemed to have missed the rather obvious option of maintained fire exit signs and floodlights.

 

Hmm...

 

T

[Ynot]

Safety lighting -> I will be asking the neighbours whether I can borrow a 13amp socket from their house, for 10x 100 watt outdoor floods in case of power trip/failiure. (4x inside, 6x outside).

Plus the door men will have torches to assist anyone who needs assistance.

Would these be left on permanently, or do you envisage them being turned on IF the power gets cut to the main feed?

If so, by whom?

How quickly?

[Stewart Newlands]

Safety lighting -> I will be asking the neighbours whether I can borrow a 13amp socket from their house, for 10x 100 watt outdoor floods in case of power trip/failiure. (4x inside, 6x outside).

Plus the door men will have torches to assist anyone who needs assistance.

Would these be left on permanently, or do you envisage them being turned on IF the power gets cut to the main feed?

If so, by whom?

How quickly?

 

Not to mention this is a separate supply with possibly a very different earth reference! It could even be from a separate substation. How do you isolate this supply if it has a fault.

[billy jim]

How about if there's a powercut for the whole street, and they go down as well?

[themadhippy]

Why not just hire a few emergency lights, youll get change out of a tenner each for a weeks hire.

[Goodsparks]

** laughs out loud **, Recipe for disaster that lot... A Dorman-Death panel board connected to one of City electrical's 'finest' proteus DB's. ;)

 

TP&N outlet connected into the panel-board will probably be fine (assuming you can get hold of an obsolete loadline mccb), but do get the spark to check the MCCB curve to ensure the EFLI will give you the required disconnection time. (cable length to FDU will be critical)

 

Given that the hager board feeds a swimming pool, you'd like to think that the earthing arangement was TNS so exporting the earth to the marquee shouldn't be a problem, however, as the installation has been altered in the way it has and left with no single means of isolation, anythings possible !

 

Also, I'd make sure that whatevers connected on the second floor isn't on during your gig. Assuming the KWH meter in the picture belongs to the leccy board and isn't being used as a sub-meter, the incoming supply will only be max. 100a per phase. Having a 100a MCCB connected to one of the sub-mains means there is limited discrimination and any significant load on your new 63a outlet could result in you blowing one of the REC's cut-out fuses - leaving a dark-quiet bit in your show.

 

And as everyone else has said, hire in some emergency lighting. The earthing, isolation, disconnection times bit will be awkward and unless they are permanently-on, ensuring they light on the failiure of the local supply (without the use of additional contactors) is impossible.

 

Paul

[Nick LX]

I'll look into hiring maintained exit signs, and maintained exit lights.

 

As for MCCB: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DORMAN-SMITH-63-AMP-...93%3A1|294%3A50

[Goodsparks]

Good old ebay.

 

Like I said though, do check out the disconnection times. Also, the install will fall within the scope of the dreaded Part P, so you'll end up with a BS 7671 EIC (By a competent person or LABC submission) for the new outlet and then a 7909 certificate for the remaining temporary distribution.