Real Newbie Question regarding background music

[bezz333]

Hi All

 

My wife wants to have music in 3 seperate rooms all coming from 1 HiFi.

 

These rooms are to have a speaker in each. Two of the rooms have to have the volume variable, the other room where the HiFi is set up does not need to have a volume control but needs the music in it.

 

So I need to have 3 speakers and have the volume adjustable on two of them and the third speaker, presumably with the volume controled by the HiFi.

 

It is all background music only.

 

Would I need to go to the expense of a £90 Adastra amp and 3 100v speakers and 2 100v volume controls and 100v wiring?

 

Or just the amp and ordinary wiring, ordinary speakers and 100v volume controls be OK?

 

I have looked through the forum and found one article on 100v wiring but it was not what I was after.

 

I am completley virginal when it come to all this.

 

So can anyone help please?

 

Thanks

 

Andrew

[paulears]

This isn't really our area - background music, but the question is why 100V? Distributed 100V systems have each individual speaker tapped with different volume settings. If you are not needing to have one cable from one amp delivering power at different levels from a single source - then if you want individual volume control, it's often far cheaper to buy some fairly basic hi-fi amps, feed them from one source and get volume and tone controls in each package. With use of the balance control, feeding them in mono, 3 amps can do 6 speakers with individual control.

 

Proper 100V line kit is expensive - both at the amp and speaker end.

 

What exactly is the end objective? What quality do you want? Does volume get set locally, or at a central point? Manual or remote? That kind of stuff.

[Simon Lewis]

Andrew,

 

If it really is just background music, then some small powered loudspeakers (like the better quality computer monitor types) might be an alternative.

 

Simon

[bezz333]

This isn't really our area - background music, but the question is why 100V? Distributed 100V systems have each individual speaker tapped with different volume settings. If you are not needing to have one cable from one amp delivering power at different levels from a single source - then if you want individual volume control, it's often far cheaper to buy some fairly basic hi-fi amps, feed them from one source and get volume and tone controls in each package. With use of the balance control, feeding them in mono, 3 amps can do 6 speakers with individual control.

 

Proper 100V line kit is expensive - both at the amp and speaker end.

 

What exactly is the end objective? What quality do you want? Does volume get set locally, or at a central point? Manual or remote? That kind of stuff.

 

Quality? Not really just background music as it is music when a therapy is going on. (Massage etc)

 

Volume control? Local

 

Ceiling speakers I want. Volume control on the wall.

 

I tried connecting them to the headphone socket but the volume was very quiet.

 

I assume I would need an amp Adastra 35w or 50w with the HIFI connected to it. Can I just run good quality cable to the speakers via a volume control from this?

 

Sorry about my stupidity on this subject, but I am a Goldsmith by trade.

[Simon Lewis]

OK.. Work out which ceiling loudspeakers you want, and the power you will "tap" them at (more power = louder, 5 or 10 W should be plenty). Add up the total number of speakers, multiply that by the power each one is tapped at, and that will give your needed amplifier power. Round the figure up the the next amp size if necessary.

 

The 100V line speaker cable doesn't have to be anything special. Normal speaker wire is fine. Buy 100V line attenuators and connect these in line with the speakers that need controlling.

 

Sound quality won't be too good, and it will lack bass response. Small powered loudspeakers would probably sound much better, but don't fit your ceiling criteria.

 

Simon

[johndenim]

AHHH! after spending 10 minutes replying I get :

 

"Flood control is enabled on this board, please wait 15 seconds before replying or posting a new topic."

 

Just a quickie then.

 

http://www.telecoms2order.com/index.cfm?ev...mp;datafeedID=1

http://www.speakercraftshop.com/

[djmatthill]

Hi Andrew ,

 

Just priced up a system Which would include 3 ceiling speakers and 100v line Amp It comes to about £99(Brand New).....

... If you need more info PM me....

 

Where about are you ??? are you planning to install yourself?

 

 

Another option is if you have an existing HI-FI amp you could buy some 100v Line transformers cheaply then simply add some cheap 100v Speakers...

 

Or the cheapest way would surely be trying to use a stereo Hi-Fi amp with four 8ohn Ceiling flush mount speakers (from only £5 each) . Feeding the music source in mono and using the balance controls to adjust the volume, you would only have 2 seperate volume levels though....

 

If you need a price on anything PM me ,,, Adastra stuff is quality stuff , But for a simple project like this cheaper brands would be fine .

 

Matt

[ChazHS]

Adastra stuff is quality stuff , But for a simple project like this cheaper brands would be fine .

 

** laughs out loud **....

[DangerousMark]

What kind of total distance will they be at from the central hifi?

 

Just thinking of some installs we've done here which are on a somewhat similar front but more simplistic.

 

Main inputs go to a fairly basic amplifier; several stereo phono inputs, 2x stereo powered speaker outs, and a couple of stereo tape loop-outs at line level. We have one set of "real" (heh) speakers powered off the actual amplified circuit, and some seperate selfpowered speakers (tall wallmounted jobs) that tap off one of the tape-outs. The input switch then determines what goes to both sets, and they both have individual volume (the tape out being a direct loop from the selected input rather than going thru the power amp section).

 

It's a bit of a wierd setup, but we have our reasons, partly because of ending up with a slightly mismatched set of equipment/capabilities that we didn't anticipate, but in the end it actually works better than using both power amp circuits because we can balance the front/rear fading better - the two speaker circuits on the amp only have on/off switches, there's no fader capability.

 

You could have one amp with that sort of capability and two tape loops coming off (or even one, with twin mono if the original input is made to be mono), with a seperate even simpler amp (one/few input/s, one output with volume (+tone?) control only) in each room to boost the line signal the required amount. It sitting inobtrusively in the corner would probably be "as good as" having a wall control and would still look smart if properly installed. That, or you could repurpose some Creative 2.1 PC type speakers which come with a small sub (to get those soothing low frequencies and stop it being tinny) AND a built-in, wired, remote volume control unit... :blink: (our ownbrand wallmounted 2.0 ones are surprisingly capable - and that's for giving video presentations to rooms full of noisy people, rather than playing meditative panpipes and the like).

 

Or for cheapskatery, one secondary amp which has master volume and volume split (i.e. "Balance" with a bit of dymo tape over it) sat between the entrances to each room. Would cause nightmares, though. Maybe instead a second one like the first, use both circuits (switching one or the other off completely when not needed), and just stick inline volume controls in the circuit (just boxes with a potentiometer and two cables each).

 

I think our main amps were somewhere around £60-80 and have enough power, at 150w, when mated to decent speakers to go louder than I can stand in a 12x24ft room without much noticable distortion.

[djmatthill]

Adastra stuff is quality stuff , But for a simple project like this cheaper brands would be fine .

 

** laughs out loud **....

 

Whats funny ? :blink:

 

As far as general public address is concerned Adastra is Well Built reliable equipment.. The point I was making was that Cheaper OEM unbranded gear would be suitable for such a small install ?

 

So Whats Funny - Please Tell ?

 

Matt

[bezz333]

I really need to wrap this up as we have the plasterers coming in soon.

 

I have these speakers

 

Ceiling Loudspeaker 5 inch - 8ohm

Round ceiling speaker with metal grill fitted with a 5" wide range speaker with PP cone.

Quick fit system allows easy mounting in the ceiling. Supplied per piece.

 

• Output power: 35 W max
  
• Frequency range: 100Hz - 12kHz
  
• Type: wide range speaker
  
• Colour: white
  
• Impedance: 8 Ohm
  
• Dimensions (grill): 190mm diameter
  
• Mounting dims: 160mm diameter / 54mm depth
  

I just need an amp and volume controls that can be fitted on the walls, similar to the 100v white ones they are selling on ebay.

 

I realise now that I dont need 100v system. The distance is only a max of 30ft from the HiFi music source.

 

Obviously with the volume down low, I dont need a fantastic sound, I doubt whether you would hear the bass.

 

Can someone PM me if you can supply this equipment please

 

Anyone?

[djmatthill]

lpad

 

Above is a link for som Volume controls you could mount in to standard single gang patress..

 

Im popping out now so need to be quick..

 

Before the plasterers come in run wires from the ceiling speakers to the place in the wall where u want the volume control .

 

The run another cable from the volume control to the place where the Amp will be siutated.

 

Ill go in to more details when I get in...

 

But doing this will enable you to complete the install when ready....

[intyra]

This probably won't be much use to you as it'll take you some time to get a quote and order through (and it might be well out of your budget) but have you considered QED Systemline rather than 100v line? It'll give you far better quality, bass response and overall control of your system - you can even upgrade to things like mood lighting control and touchscreens - it's cabled using CAT5 cabling which also makes life cheap and easy.

 

I appreciate that's probably a piece of useless advice, but if you can get it in budget and in time, it may be worth looking at.

[bezz333]

This probably won't be much use to you as it'll take you some time to get a quote and order through (and it might be well out of your budget) but have you considered QED Systemline rather than 100v line? It'll give you far better quality, bass response and overall control of your system - you can even upgrade to things like mood lighting control and touchscreens - it's cabled using CAT5 cabling which also makes life cheap and easy.

 

I appreciate that's probably a piece of useless advice, but if you can get it in budget and in time, it may be worth looking at.

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply but those systems are way way beyond my budget. Sorry

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

lpad

 

Above is a link for som Volume controls you could mount in to standard single gang patress..

 

Im popping out now so need to be quick..

 

Before the plasterers come in run wires from the ceiling speakers to the place in the wall where u want the volume control .

 

The run another cable from the volume control to the place where the Amp will be siutated.

 

Ill go in to more details when I get in...

 

But doing this will enable you to complete the install when ready....

 

So all I would need are two LP-100-8 L Pad Attenuator at £6.40 and the Adastra Compact 25W Mixer Amplifier at £54.99

 

I take the 3 pairs of wires and attach then to the common and 8 ohm outputs and wire in the volume controls.

 

The wiring looks simple enough. Shouldnt be too much trouble even for me ** laughs out loud **

[djmatthill]

If you are just using 8 ohm speakers unless you really need an amp with mic input. Id just get a normal HI -FI amp from cash converters etc or ebay..

 

Will be cheaper than the Adastra unit.. Or a a complete midi or seperate Hi FI system ???

 

Matt