tomchennells Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 thanks - yeh the pattern 123's and 23's arnt 2 bad I guess based on age - when I meant the cheesy sound to light movers I meant something that is controlled to a degree such as an abstract twister4 or similar...essentially a disco light but a bit of DMX a slow rotation and some soft gobo changes can actully have some reasnable effect on a tight budget - however I am not trying to defend sound to light junk against the real mc'oy id rather have a bank of 8 par 64s any day but if all your laterns are lighting the stage and needs must u can achive a satisfactory effect for cheaper than hiring a whoile loada conventionals, the only reason I know this is because ive had to do it myself and actully made it look OK by not over dooing it correct me if im wrong but they do 500w halogen lamps that fit in the standard lamp holders in both the pattern 23 and 123 which gives u a bit more output Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 anyone know where you can still get p23/123 old lamps? if they are too expensive, would anyone recommend the GY9.5 convertor? and would I be able to fit them (legally and practically) considering I'm a completely unqualified AS level student? try stage elecs, ajs or one of the other majors - they might have some converter kits still about. T1's are a bit ancient now, but T17's are easily available, albiet a bit dear, but P28 bases are still gettable. Depending on how many you're going to get through, the price of the adapter kit might not be worth the bother. There isn't anything to stop you fitting the kit, but the rules of your place will probably insist on a PAT test anyway, so as long as you take the usual steps to make a good job of it, it should pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 anyone know where you can still get p23/123 old lamps? You're looking for either a T17 or a T24 (500w lamps with a P28s base). Any lamp supplier worth their salt will be able to quote you a price for them. As a point of note for you or anyone else who's looking at pressing some very old Pattern lanterns into service .... if they're especially old, make sure you give the wiring (internal and external) a really good going-over before using them. It's not uncommon to come across P23s, P123s, etc. with the old cotton/fibreglass style cabling - if these are what you have, it's well worth spending a couple of quid on each lantern and rewiring them with high-temp silicone tails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P. Funk Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 I have no idea - they are HUGE though.. big glass domes bout 50mm dia, with a filament somewhere in the middle. I tried to unscrew one of them th other day and the glass came out, n the base of the lamp stayed put.... so I'm assuming they havent been changed since they were bought either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 they're probably the old T1's. although about 100mm in diameter. they had a habit of doing what yours did, especially if you don't push down hard enough before you twist.gareths comment on cable is important - some even had 3 separate ASBESTOS insulated cores that will crumble when you touch them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P. Funk Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 yep. asbestos galore in our old lantern stock. our understage area got cleaned out last summer and a new ceiling n stuff and is alright now... but the lanterns were up on the bars at the time (and hadnt been moved for several years). any tips on restoring p23s? just give them a really good clean and fit a new lamp base? the only reason I knew about the lamp conversion kits were because when I asked AC for some of these lamps they quoted me for the conversion kits instead! (£30 each?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 any tips on restoring p23s? just give them a really good clean and fit a new lamp base? The usual stuff. Make sure they're mechanically sound (tilt lock, lens tube lock-off, no lose bits rattling around inside, etc.), optically clean and tidy (nice and easy on a P23, one lens and one reflector!), and electrically safe (usual PAT test criteria, plus renew any old bits that look worn out). You might not need to replace the lamp holder - if it looks OK, there aren't any signs of arcing/corrosion, the spring pushing the pad up onto the base of the lamp is still springy enough, etc. then there's no reason why it won't be perfectly fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P. Funk Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 sorry when I meant a new lamp base I meant a new GY9.5 base.. I imagine a T18 would be more efficient/better optically than a T1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robloxley Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 sorry when I meant a new lamp base I meant a new GY9.5 base.. I imagine a T18 would be more efficient/better optically than a T1?Possibly, but you wouldn't put a T1 in a P23/123 these days! Looking at the prices from someone like Mico, it doesn't seem to make economic sense to upgrade the lamp base as they do good prices on the P28s lamps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcT Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 sorry when I meant a new lamp base I meant a new GY9.5 base.. I imagine a T18 would be more efficient/better optically than a T1?Mr Funk, Why not use a T17/T24? This is a modern 500W halogen lamp with a P28 prefocus base. Its suitable for direct replacement of the T1 in a Patt 23, with no need to change the lampholder. http://www.stage-electrics.co.uk/s20/000090.jpg Picture from the Stage Electrics webshop. FYR They have the T17/T24 @ £15.33, compared to £12.38 for a T18/T25. I bought a few of these from Whitelight a year ago for a local amdram group. I think I paid around the £15 mark, and they're still going strong. Optically they are better than the tungsten T1. Regards,Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 I've seen some P23's / P123's refitted with GY9.5's and with 650W lamps. This does make them more usable, I'm just a bit cautious about the extra heat. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 I've seen some P23's / P123's refitted with GY9.5's and with 650W lamps. This does make them more usable, I'm just a bit cautious about the extra heat. I have some converted 123s and they do run VERY hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sguy42 Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 I've seen some P23's / P123's refitted with GY9.5's and with 650W lamps. This does make them more usable, I'm just a bit cautious about the extra heat. JamesOther alternatives: T28 still 500W P28 Base, more output, shorter life. T13 650W P28 Base. The Pattern 813/823 had the same lamphouse (at least it casually looks the same) and took a 650W as standard so I don't think the heat is too bad, they did have black bodies though. The P23 origonally was only rated to 250W! For the foolhardy, strictly at your own risk, T6 1000W P28 Base. Liable to cause premature failure of lampbase, cabling etc. If you've got a lot of more modern lights it may be worth doing the conversion to avoid carrying the extra spares. shane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P. Funk Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 thank y'all for that. at the moment our school doesnt know the meaning of the phrase 'new lamps' - they just think that lamps never go - they never used to before I came and actually utilised the lighting they have (and persuaded them to buy some more :D). We actually managed to blag about 10 T18s off a very nice friend's neighbour. I really didnt realise you could still get lamps for that base... I'll pop in after the exams int here are finished and have a peek at the condition of them. Thanks everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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