Second hand light deal I have have got!

[Stu]

Scenemaster, I think to be honest you'll have to play with your 264s and Teapots when you get them to see what they are like. Our Teapots range from crap to slightly less crap, so it really can be a case of pot luck.

 

Good luck.

Stu

[computer]

at least now with the money you saved from the £400 you can afford a few pars

[SceneMaster]

What money saved? We are buying the sils for £300 and getting the 264s free I then asked about the other £100 and was told we either brought the Teapots :) or lost it as they are not interested in buying new gear at the moment. Anyway if I been thinking if these T-Spots are so bad why were they designed and why people by them? I believe you guy that they are complete ####* as profiles but what if you were to take the shutters right out (or remove them?) and just used them a fancy par? Ok this won't work and the light would look nothing like a par light source but if in design you went in with the mentality that they were like par56s not profiles then they can't be that bad. The only control you would have over them is par, tilt, colour nothing else like a par. Don't tell me there so #### that there throw distance is less than a Par56 which I very much doubt if so the designer must have really been off his head when he designed these. I would just move the lens so it gave its biggest spread and colour washed with it probably for saturates. Does it by the way also create hot spots in filters and melt through them? If so this light really is that bad! :** laughs out loud **:

[gareth]

T-spots are far from brilliant, but they do the job. As with everything technical, the design of profile lanterns has moved on in leaps and bounds since the T-spots were 'cutting edge' 30-odd years ago. Bear in mind that the lanterns that you're buying are considerably older than you are :), and that is going to be reflected in their performance and condition.

 

If it's T-spots or nothing, then grab the T-spots! But don't be under any illusions about what they can or can't do. If you want parcans, buy parcans. A T-spot with its shutters out is still a T-spot!

[SceneMaster]

Out of interest how old are sil 30s (the design) as these are CCT so must be fairly new and are still in use in theatres? Where do I find manuals/info about them on the web? I have tried CCTs website but there is no info on older gear. Can you still get lamps for Patt264s and T-Spots? Is the Patt264 a better design than the T-Spot even though it has an upside down lamp which is a bad design point the T-Spot was the direct replacement for 264s but by the sound or it failed any tips on how to use these crap lights?

[gareth]

Out of interest how old are sil 30s (the design) as these are CCT so must be fairly new and are still in use in theatres?

The Silhouette is of approximately the same vintage as the T54/T64 (a little older than the T84, I believe), so they're anything but 'fairly new'. But yes, they're still in use in many venues to this day. There have been minor improvements to the design over the years, and the late 80's saw the release of the "Turbo Sil", with redesigned optics - but the fact that so many of them are still in day-to-day use right now (although in many cases, not for much longer!) is testament to what a good design it was for its time.

 

Where do I find manuals/info about them on the web?

For Sils? You'll be lucky! :)

 

Can you still get lamps for Patt264s and T-Spots?

Yes.

 

Is the Patt264 a better design than the T-Spot even though it has an upside down lamp which is a bad design point the T-Spot was the direct replacement for 264s but by the sound or it failed any tips on how to use these crap lights?

No, the 264 isn't a better design than the T-spot. Its lamp isn't really 'upside down' - the T4 was designed for cap-up burning, so it's the right way up. It's just that the right way up for these lamps is different from the right way up for most other lamps! These old lanterns might be "crap" when compared against an SL or a Source4 - but in their hey-day they were "where it was at", and they did the job pretty well for many years. I first started to get involved with lighting back when Strand's Harmony range (replacements for T-spots and 743's) were the new big thing - back then, the old 'green' Strand lanterns, along with Silhouettes and Rockettes (anyone remember them?!), formed the backbone of the lantern stock of most of the theatres in this country. They did the job.

[Stu]

Don't tell me there so #### that there throw distance is less than a Par56 which I very much doubt

Well no, I wouldn't use a Par 56 on one of our FOH bridges, where our T64s spend a reasonable amount of time populating... You will get more light from a T64, but it's quality in profile terms is something very much up for debate.

 

if so the designer must have really been off his head when he designed these

 

As Gareth says, time and technology moves on. They were pushed to be the next big thing in the 70s (the first computer designed lantern I think) but now they just don't compare.

 

Does it by the way also create hot spots in filters and melt through them? If so this light really is that bad

 

If you peak any profile your going to burn out the gel quicker than if you gave the beam a nice 'flat' property, it's all about setting up the lantern correctly.

 

Hey no one is saying T-spots are fantastic, your just going to have to learn how to use them to the best of your advantage. We use them once in a while at work, and they come in handy when we do, but we know what to use them for... The best description I've heard in a long time of the quality of light they emit is comparing it to a blob of blamonge.... So there you go!

 

Stu

[robloxley]

Sils went through at least 3 redesigns before the Turbo range. As long as you maintain them well they'll give good service. Also it's worth spending some time playing with the lamp adjustment when you first get them as they may well be out. If you phone CCT they'll be able to help you out with spares etc.

[Martin]

The trouble with the 'turbo' sils was that the original sil's were a better design. That's why you won't find many 'turbo' sils around now.

[Gnome]

Hi All,

 

Just an observation. Weren't 764s the replacement for 264 and the Tpots replaced them? The 764 were of the same vintage as 743 and used the "revolutionary" TH lamps the T10.

 

There's bags of info on all of these on the Strand Archive, http://www.strandarchive.co.uk/

 

Regards

 

Ian Wilson

[gareth]

Just an observation. Weren't 764s the replacement for 264 and the Tpots replaced them? The 764 were of the same vintage as 743 and used the "revolutionary" TH lamps the T10.

Actually, you're quite right. 763/764 were to the the 264/264 as the 743 was to the 223 ... pretty much! And I guess it's also worth mentioning that the 763/4 also had narrow-angle versions in the 773/4. The Strand Archive doesn't have dates for the 76x and 77x units - anyone know when they were released?

[tomchennells]

ran all technical stuff in my old school for years and I had to hire dimmers for everyshow but due to budget out came the old pattern 23's and 123's (I think thats what there called anyway!) more affectionatly known as accorns and cannons they were completely crap putting it nicely but I used them in bulk as theyw ere only 500w and used alot of spliters and grelcos! using 3 or 4 to light one area meant I could actully pull off shows

 

its all about making the most of what you have - 400 quid isnt much atall in the lighting world and that is alot of lanterns !!!! so use them in bulk dont be affraid to use them all !

 

 

With regards to flashing them - in my opinion its not a good idea with lamps that are this expensive (u sound tight on dosh) the more u flash them the quicker they will go - when you are asked for flashing light either hire in some cheapo sound to light movers !!! or tell them u need another few hundred quid for some pars

 

good luck mate hope the systym comes together nicely !

 

tom

[gareth]

due to budget out came the old pattern 23's and 123's (I think thats what there called anyway!) more affectionatly known as accorns and cannons they were completely crap putting it nicely

Don't knock 23's and 123's. Considering that these designs first saw the light of day in the 1950's, they're pretty good for what they are. They might not be able to compete with modern optics, lamps, etc. but if they're all you've got then you can get by with them happily enough. Remember, it's not what you've got, it's what you do with it!

 

With regards to flashing them - in my opinion its not a good idea with lamps that are this expensive (u sound tight on dosh) the more u flash them the quicker they will go

One word - preheat.

 

when you are asked for flashing light either hire in some cheapo sound to light movers

<sigh> Another person who hasn't yet realised that moving lights are not the answer to every single problem. If you want a light that will go zipiing around all over the place in response to every little sound, but will hardly ever be actually pointing where you want it to point, then yes, get some "cheapo sound to light movers". On the other hand, if you want flashing lights that actuallylook decent, then just put a bit of preheat (10 to 15%, to just below the point where you can actually see light coming out of the fixture) onto the channels you're flashing and it'll do wonders for your lamp life.

[James]

Out came the old pattern 23's and 123's (I think thats what there called anyway!) more affectionatly known as accorns and cannons they were completely crap putting it nicely

 

Hmm I had P23's until yesterday and still have a bunch of P123's.

 

Basicaly if they are being pulled out of storage make sure they are clean. The lenses drop out realy easily and I stick them in the dishwasher, or soak them in warm soapy water to get the muck off. Damp cloth on the reflector also helps.

 

James

[P. Funk]

nice one! I may try that with our stock at school that havent been cleaned probably since they were bought... that, and checking they are safe before I rig them...

 

anyone know where you can still get p23/123 old lamps? if they are too expensive, would anyone recommend the GY9.5 convertor? and would I be able to fit them (legally and practically) considering I'm a completely unqualified AS level student?