benweblight Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 sils = silhouettes I guess? if so I would say you should defenately atleast get them, from experience, with those 'clapped out lights' rock concerts would look , excuse my language, crap, on their, own so yes you should still get pars for that, or buy some Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 the beam angle is fairly narrow (about 19 degrees, if memory serves) so probably only good for FOH - even narrower - 17 degrees on a 264. the other issue - is that you'll end up with plenty of equipment, but how much of it can you actually power up and control? there was a mention of 15 to 5amp adapters - If you are still on 5 amp - are the dimmers 2k? if not you won't be able to pair anything up and that'll cost you, control wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SceneMaster Posted June 10, 2004 Author Share Posted June 10, 2004 Thanks guys. I have been a bit confused at school at moment about what is happening with the lighting and all the school politics which is way over my head and should not be involved in is doing my head in. Basically, the system in the hall consists of nothing apart form the 30year old cable in the roof which I consider very dangerous and a pulsar dimmer pack. The school and I (mainly I) need a set of lights to call our own and get by to do little events such as parents evenings and awards evenings where I am told to do the light with your few floods and are patt23s then I am criticized for bad design and letting like "flood" ;) where it shouldn't be! When we have a basically crap but better than nothing but workable systems with these lights and have got the cable and control sorted out I can then spend any money that I can get my hands on replacing light by light (literally) the lights we get for £400 and then hopeful have a good system. The reasoning for this approach is say I get £1000 for lighting and by a dimmer and two lights (say betapack and source 4jr.) Then when a show comes along the head and the other staff will say where is our decent lighting for our £1000 as most of these people don't have a clue how much lights cost and one of them thought I could buy par lamps for around £3 each!!! :** laughs out loud **: I will then get criticized for advising them wrong ect. So my plan is to get these light in and I have seen them (not in action) but they are very good condition. I can then use the lights to create secondary school standard lighting (which by professional standard is absolute sh**, I cringe when I look at my lighting designs rigged as I know what I want but I have to balance everything else like way 5 cable in the roof is dead ect. so this makes me look a bad designer ect) If then once I have a lighting system to play with and make my design look better then I can replace the t-spots and 264s keep the sils as these are very good and are still in action in the theatre where these lights are coming from studio they just have too many that’s why they are selling to me :D Then I can build a great system and then leave school!!! Anyway thanks guys for your experience once again and I hope you see whey I have mad myself look a such fool going for any light I can get my hands on (yes I would like a kit of even just 12 source 4s, strand sls ore silicon pacifics I would be content with these lights as they have so much capability but life isn’t like that unfortunately.) Thanks again, SceneMaster. PS. Any useful advice ex school people can give me who have dealt with rubbish system and have felt constricted in there’d designs but have been able to improve there systems some how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SceneMaster Posted June 10, 2004 Author Share Posted June 10, 2004 We hire control at the moment for big shows (costly) and use are pulsar pack and my multidim for control for awards evenings ect. Which works well as we have 10 control channels and paring the pulsar pack form the lighting box is not too bad as the pairs go out on separate cable for each light so the 5amp system is not too bad as we have a (one only ever or we would have melt down ;) ) light on each cable then hard patch at the other end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 It might just be worth checking that your school are okay with you buying second-hand kit. I know that some schools refuse to buy it, but others are okay with it. one of them thought I could buy par lamps for around £3 each!!! Birdie lamps maybe?;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 I assume you realise that 1kW (Sils are 1kW - not sure on the others) is roughly equal to 4.5A, therefore you can only run one on each 5A connector. Check that your dimmers are fused correctly - this may be 5A, 6.3A, 10A, or more per channel. Obviously if its 5A per channel then you can only put one Sil on each channel, whereas if they're 10A channels you can happily pair at the dimmer end. And obviously check that you dont exceed the total load on the dimmer as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SceneMaster Posted June 10, 2004 Author Share Posted June 10, 2004 School know it is second hand as I had to do a report showin the cost of the new gear each over the costs of the 21 light here and I did put in the report I would perfer the new gear and the it would produce much better quality but there resposi with will add to our Strand system of Patt23s ect and that cna produce some nice light so these "sils" must be much better. I personaly aggree that for a secondary school owning 9 sils is fairly good. I know some of you school people there have 20 million new lights aswell movers and mayby even a decent memory desk but my school is just not intrested in bring up the cash but still want the results! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SceneMaster Posted June 10, 2004 Author Share Posted June 10, 2004 I assume you realise that 1kW (Sils are 1kW - not sure on the others) is roughly equal to 4.5A, therefore you can only run one on each 5A connector. Check that your dimmers are fused correctly - this may be 5A, 6.3A, 10A, or more per channel. Obviously if its 5A per channel then you can only put one Sil on each channel, whereas if they're 10A channels you can happily pair at the dimmer end. And obviously check that you dont exceed the total load on the dimmer as well. The dimmer we use are all (except my multi dim) 10amp a channel and I have made a rule of only on light per cable in the roof even if it is a par56. This is even written on a notice in the lighting box. So there is not possibility of stupid electrical practice and I feel fairly competent as I have shadowed several professional and they have taught be loads as well as you guy plus I have worked with a sparkly so don’t worry I am not a cavalier person who doesn’t think about loads, ways and electrical safety and spend many night with a calculator working out my system loads. If fact I spend more time working on how the system will work and how to get round problems than the design which is not how I feel it should be as my passion is creating decent looking lighting ;) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 I have worked with a sparkly Did he have red shoes, and a friend called Dorothy? ;) The bottom line, when it comes to purchasing used kit like this and the school thinks that they're going to get way more for their £400 than is actually the case, comes down to those six oft-used words - "You get what you pay for". If you're getting 21 1k profile lanterns for £400, then don't expect too much otherwise I think you might be sorely disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Yup I can only agree with what Gareth just said... Sometimes you hit lucky and get a very good deal for your money (the best one I ever got was 18x Harmony 15/28s with lamps, colour frames, hookclamps, safeties, delivery etc for £400!) and sometimes your not so lucky. Don't expect miracles from the Teapots or 264s 'cos your unlikely to get 'em! All I can say is have a look round Ebay - there are some 1k Starlette Fs going at the mo for £80 for 2, which might be worth considering too... Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiLL Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 All in all it's not a bad deal. As we've firmly established the sils will stand you proud and after working with just 23's will make you feel like you've died and gone to heaven. One question though, just how many profiles does one school need? Shows cannot live on profiles alone, the majority of my rigs for amdram and school work are made up of fresnels. Because with limited channels and rig space I've found you need as much spread in the beam as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enbee Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 I've personally just finished kitting out a school who were after as many pars as they could get for £300 I specced up these http://www.netzmarkt.de/thomann/thoiw2_artikel-163119.html now before you all shout at me for supplying lights that are almost toys, they do the job. the furthest that these are ever going to move is to the other end of the bar and since they don't come with bulbs, it left able to fit them with decent ones I guess what I'm saying is, think about getting cheaper new lights, you have a certain amount of guarentee with them and by the sounds of things its not as if your kit is going to be thrown in a truck and hauled round the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Some Bloke Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Just to remind you, don't forget about the total current draw. If you decided to use all your lanterns in a full up, you'd draw a lot of current. According to the Strand website both T64s and Patt 264s are rated at 1000w, as are Sil 30s. 21 x 1000w = 21,000w which divided by, say 235v (half way between what we used to have and what we now have!) gives you 91.3A. If you have a 125A input this is fine, otherwise beware!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SceneMaster Posted June 11, 2004 Author Share Posted June 11, 2004 Ok the sills have been brought for the £300 for 9x which I think that most people will agree was a good move am I correct? The Patt 264s are coming free with those but we will probably use them as back ups or used instead of the T-spots. Out of interest are the Patt 264s better than the T-Spots (judging from previous comment the answer will be a YES)? On the mater of the T-Spot the mater has be brought up with the AV technician that these will be a pile of Shi* and that they will be bad but they much be better than the old Patt23s ect. and for a school with the strand floods in main use should be ok but I am note expecting anything and will not be relying on them for any decent lighting. The plan is to use them to point light in general direction for the consent with no definite shape or focus and only using them to enhance the Sills colour or maybe they would be better as point “feature†coloured lighting the audience as focal point but not actual lighting anything? I get the impression this is all there good for? Thanks again, Scenemaster :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robloxley Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Ok the sills have been brought for the £300 for 9x which I think that most people will agree was a good move am I correct? Yes, assuming they're in decent working order and not needing much reapirs. If they need much work doing, then this'll soon add up in spares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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