Par Safes - Legal requirement?

[JohnK]

Does anyone know of any legal requirement to fit Par safes to Parcans? I know that they are a good idea, but I was wondering if it is required to fit them.

 

Thanks

John

[Ian Ferguson]

"Par Safe" is a specific product. There is not a legal requirement to fit the specific product "Par Safe" in par cans.

 

If you wish to fit a lampholder of this type there are several options available.

 

The "requirement" comes from Health and Safety directives which require any live equipment to be either suitably enclosed or double insulated. The traditional ceramic lamp holder clearly does not meet either option.

 

There have been several ways used to meet this requirement including using Par cans with sealed backs, adding a "handle" to the ceramic to make it double insulated and purpose designed double insulated lampholders such as Parsafe, Parsure and Parshell.

[Ike]

The "requirement" comes from Health and Safety directives which require any live equipment to be either suitably enclosed or double insulated.

There is no such directive as far as I am aware, much "live equipment" is simply placed out of reach or protected by obstecals.

 

It really does depent entirely on you risk assesment.

[paulears]

if you can touch the porcelain it should fail the PAT. If it can't be spun (As in the ones with a metal grill) there's not much point in using it.

[Stu]

It's not a legal requirement as such, but it does far improve the working conditions for your crew... The Thomas ones are best as you don't have to get your fingers anywhere near the inside of the lantern, but can also be a bit annoying as sometimes if the handle hasn't been corrected placed back on top of the ceramic, then it can be a pain to rotate. Plus it's harder to see which way the lantern is already turned before the lamp comes up.

 

The DTS ones stick out the back so it's very rare for your pinkies to go inside, but obviously with the gaps down the side it can be done. However all the wiring is hidden anyway so it's not a big issue...

 

And the other one (the ones WL, SLX etc use, Parshell?) works on the same principle as the DTS ones but are contained purely within the back of the can, so you have to put your hand in.

 

But to be honest I don't care what it is, as long as it's not the bare ceramic type ones that can still be found kicking about. If you love your crew you'll invest the extra couple of squids in them!

 

Stu

 

PS. What do peeps think of the 'bare' Thomas ceramics, the one with the metal strip round the bottom of them, and the raised bit which the normal 'Parsafe' slots over? Obviously these aren't as good as the proper thing, but they are still better than a bare 'flat' ceramic.. Thoughts?

[timmath]

PS. What do peeps think of the 'bare' Thomas ceramics, the one with the metal strip round the bottom of them, and the raised bit which the normal 'Parsafe' slots over? Obviously these aren't as good as the proper thing, but they are still better than a bare 'flat' ceramic.. Thoughts?

 

If the parsafe or adjuster is missing I'd rather twiddle a bare ceramic than the bare ceramic with a metal ring around!

 

regards

 

Tim

 

PS don't forget.... you don't need to twist the lamps in Aeros - Those of you who've clambered along trusses twiddling every lamp before you will know what I mean!

[Stu]

If the parsafe or adjuster is missing I'd rather twiddle a bare ceramic than the bare ceramic with a metal ring around!

I'm really not sure why they have got a metal ring around them (anyone know?) but I don't think it's connected to anything. Still it's got a raised part to the ceramic so you can keep pinkies anyway.

 

I really hate the old school flat ceramics as the tops are liable to swing off to reveal the live contacts... And to all of those that think the chances of this happening are tiny, well a good 18 months ago I put my hand in to rotate a lamp and the cover of the ceramic flung open, next thing I know.... *buzz*! Ouch :)

 

Anyway, easy answer is to just replace all old school ceramics with Parsafes. They really don't cost very much...

 

Stu

[gareth]

if you can touch the porcelain it should fail the PAT.

If the ceramic and wiring are in good condition, the back of the ceramic is securely in place, the conductors have braided sleeving fitted, the earth tests OK and it all works, what aspect of the PAT test would you fail it on?

[gareth]

The Thomas ones are best

NO!!! :)

 

Thomas lamp adjusters are sh*te. Parshells rock, with Parsafes coming a very close second in the "things that rock" stakes ...

[Stu]

The Thomas ones are best

NO!!! :o

 

Thomas lamp adjusters are sh*te. Parshells rock, with Parsafes coming a very close second in the "things that rock" stakes ...

Woah there Gareth! :)

 

I didn't quite put my comments over quite as I wanted too (I blame the heat going to my head personally! hehe) - basically I mean in saftey wise terms the Thomas ones are best as it stops anyone from putting their hand anywhere near the lamp when it's on. However, for overall greatness I would defintely choose Parsafes or Parshells any day of the week over the Thomas ones...

 

For my reasons, well see the gripes from my earlier message - caps hard to rotate at times, can often stick etc etc

 

Hopefully I've put this over a bit better :)

 

Stu

PS. Just to reply to Tim's post (and to save making a new post etc)

if you only twist the top but then no wonder it spun off!

If I remember, at the time I did twist the whole thing but as the top was loose it was enough for it to give way... I can't really remember much about it to be honest!

[timmath]

I really hate the old school flat ceramics as the tops are liable to swing off to reveal the live contacts... And to all of those that think the chances of this happening are tiny, well a good 18 months ago I put my hand in to rotate a lamp and the cover of the ceramic flung open, next thing I know.... *buzz*! Ouch 

 

Unfortunate but there is a good inch of ceramic to grip - if you only twist the top but then no wonder it spun off! A good pair of leather gloves will protect you from the heat.

 

 

if you can touch the porcelain it should fail the PAT

 

Like Gareth says if it's all in good working order with a PAT then its fine - people had been twisting ceramics for 25 years before the ParSafe was introduced.

 

As for why Thomas have a lump of metal round the ceramic I have not a clue - it could be to keep it together as from memory the ceramic is in 2 halves - and it gives the lamp adjuster a hard surface to apply good twist to!

 

Tim

[Paul J Need]

Bit of confusion here not??

 

One person says "it is a requirement" - someone else says not. One says if one can touch the lamp holder then an instant PAT test failure.... someone else says not!

 

 

Is it any wonder people get confused. Surely one should look towards organisations such as the ABTT for clarification rather than rely on heresay?

[Brian]

There should be no confusion...

 

If a product is placed for sale in the EU with a CE mark, then by definition it is safe. As long as it has not been modified or broken there is no justification to fail it at PA test time. The one exception MIGHT be if regulations have changed since the unit was first CE marked.

 

In fact, anyone purchasing a lantern with CE mark and then modifying it, by fitting a 'PAR safe' or similar, immediately negates the CE mark.

[timmath]

If a product is placed for sale in the EU with a CE mark

 

Although if your selling a product made in the same country as it's being sold it doesn't need a CE mark!

 

Ehhh?

[Paul J Need]

If a product is placed for sale in the EU with a CE mark

 

Although if your selling a product made in the same country as it's being sold it doesn't need a CE mark!

 

Ehhh?

You best check these facts. Its probably more to do with products liabililty cover. If one purchased a non-CE approved item, and it failed causing fire, death or injury the manufacturer could face probable unlimited penalties.

 

To add to the confusion - one only has to look through the Thomas price list..... how many versions of PAR64 are there? 6-7 maybe, R Spec, TV Spec, E spec, S spec, CE spec, some supplied with or without a lamp adjuster. Only certain types "should" be sold to non-professional customers............... still confused?