Replacing kit - new or used?

[karl]

A venue which I'm involved with has a reasonable stock of lighting equipment. Most of the lanterns are 'getting on a bit' but are still perfectly serviceable and should last a few more years (with a bit of TLC). It is an amateur venue and isn't in continuous use - about eighteen week long productions a year.

 

A handful of lanterns, having fallen victim to ham-fisted numpties, are beyond reasonable repair and need to be replaced. In an ideal world I would replace the broken ones and the oldest of the rest with a view to replacing all of the lanterns over the next two or three years. Unfortunately there are more pressing issues such as an increasingly temperamental lighting desk and dodgy dimmer racks that need sorting. The available budget for lantern replacement is therefore limited.

 

So, what would you do? Would you:

 

a) Buy new replacements (of the same model where possible and near equivalents for obsolete stuff).

 

b) Buy second hand replacements of the same models as the broken ones (thus avoiding having yet more different combinations of lamps, gel frame sizes, etc.). And as used lanterns are half the price of new buy a few extra to protect against future failure/breakage.

 

c) Do nothing until further failure/breakage forces the issue and hope by that point more funds are available.

 

d) Do something else.

[smalljoshua]

Thinking out loud...

 

How about buying good modern fixtures. I know they will stand out now but will make it easier to upgrade on a whole later.

 

Josh

[david.elsbury]

I'd lean towards "B"

What lanterns are we talking anyway? T-(s)pots? P123's???? Something more modern?

[mikienorth]

An amateur venue close to me has had a similar problem over the last 15 years or so.

 

Their lighting desk died mid show 14 years ago, requiring quick replacment.

 

They then bought more lighting to increase stock quantities, of a similar (Identical) style to the exisiting stock. This was brand new, as oppose to the old stock, which had been bought or acquired second hand. (10 Years Ago)

 

They replaced dimmers with second hand items (9 Years Ago)

 

Recently (3 Years ago) they begun a program of small purchases (3 or so at a time) of new lighting stock. These are brighter, more efficient and in many ways more robust than the older stock.

 

Last summer they finally installed DMX dimmers, having, since the desk replacement in 1995 been running control through a demux, and moved dimming down to the stage end.

 

Anyway, the moral, or my opinion. They spent money twice on the same kit by buying second hand. OK, maybe not the same amount twice, but they bought the stuff then had to replace it a few years later.

 

The main exception is the lighting control, they had an emergency situation.

 

So, buy new. Buy different. Slowly phase in replacements of a better standard, with easy spares availability. If the desk is dying, buy that first.

 

First of all, have the dodgy dimmers serviced, or at least inspected by a specialist. This will give you many more years of use, or at worst a realisitic assesment of the remaining life of them.

 

Then, buy a desk that is big enough for what you need, with a little bit of expansion. If it is a small space, do you need more than 512 channels of control? You can easily run 100 dimmers, Which, for amateur, is A LOT, and have loads of capability in the desk for intelligent fixtures, should you ever need them.

 

At the same time, if need be, buy something to make it work with the dimmers you have.

 

Then begin a programme of phased replacement. As you buy new, your 'spares' stock increases, keeping what you have running longer.

The big suprise comes to the holders of the money, when you show them how much brighter the new things are, how cheaper they are to run, and so on. It would be no big shock to suddenly find them giving you bigger money for bigger purchases, as the stuff is so good.

 

After replacing the lantern stock, then look at replacing dimming. This is quite a big expense, and could involve quite involved infrastructure alteration, which is another high cost.

 

Above all, buy well. Buy established or well supported names, that are widely used or reccommended by people other than your suppliers, as many of the items you are looking to replace will need to be supported for the following 20 years or more.

[MrBoomal]

I would be tempted to buy secondhand modern lanterns. I've never bought a new source 4, and never had an issue with any secondhand one.

Buy good quality lanterns secondhand and they will last another 20 years.

[Davethsparky]

Definately don't go for C, due to sod's law any failures will happen mid-production and not when you have a decent chance to deal with it.

 

I personally would go for second hand kit from a known source (somewhere like usedlighting) If you like the kit you have at the moment then replace with the same. If you don't like the kit you have or it doesn't do the job you want it to then shop around and find something that you do like. The majority of generics with the same power ratings will take the same type of lamp so shouldn't give you too much hassle in the spare lamps department.

You might want to consider hiring in a set of whatever you are looking to buy so that you can get an idea of whether or not they are what you need.

[karl]

Perhaps I should just clarify a couple of things.

 

The lighting desk is top priority and I intend to replace it as a matter of urgency with either a new or very nearly-new one.

 

I am also taking steps to sort out the dimmers.

 

The question of what to do about replacements really only refers to replacing broken lanterns.

 

What lanterns are we talking anyway? T-(s)pots? P123's???? Something more modern?

Well various models but all newer than P123's. Strand Cantata Fresnel, CCT Starlette Fresnel, Strand Quartet Fresnel. I believe the Starlettes and Quartets are still available new but at about twice the price of used versions.

 

Definately don't go for C, due to sod's law any failures will happen mid-production and not when you have a decent chance to deal with it.

 

I personally would go for second hand kit from a known source (somewhere like usedlighting) If you like the kit you have at the moment then replace with the same.

As I say, I certainly have no intention of going for option C where the desk is concerned. Lanterns don't tend to fail spontaneously they usually need a helping hand like being dropped form a height or people stripping them down and then losing the various parts.

 

Any secondhand stuff would indeed come from a trusted supplier such as the one you mention.

[mikienorth]

If second hand is the plan, then go for the idea of second hand Source 4's

 

Hadn't thought of those coming up second hand, more of things like Strand Prelude, Harmony, etc.

 

Not much to go wrong on a S4, and they are still shifting in volume new, so are something to keep hold of for a very long time.

 

Get the big worries sorted first though, desk and dimming. Just don't over spend. the Amateur place I was involved in bought Strand MX 14 years ago, and it worked out great, MX48, and they only went over 48 channels needed very recently. Movers they rent, and tend to sub a desk in too, although we did once drop 2 GS3's onto the bottom 24 faders and spent a LONG time plotting with faders.....