Midas Pro 6 Digital

[Bobbsy]

The large local theatre here has just replaced their H2000 with a Pro 6.

 

They're being kind enough to give me some training and a bit of time to play next Tuesday but I was just wondering if anyone has used one yet and knows of anything I should be watching for in terms of "gotchas" or useful shortcuts? I've downloaded the user guide and am reading through that but you never know really how something is until you get your hands on it...and even a "play" is not substitute for using a board for real.

 

If anyone's interested, I post about my impressions once I've had my training.

 

Bob

[MarkPAman]

If anyone's interested, I post about my impressions once I've had my training.

 

Always interested in your impressions Bob :brownnosesmiley:

[mostlyharmless]

Waiting for one on demo soon, so will be interesting to hear how you get on.

[chris4monitors]

I went to a demo earlier this week and was blown away. Amazing bit of kit, I will be supprised if anyone here doesnt agree !

[alex_kyuss]

I quiet agree, I had all of about 20 minutes on it at plasa with Richard from midas showing some of the more interesting bits and its seems great. slightly off topic I had a great day at Digico this week and there new SD7 is brilliant so much better then D5. email them there very helpful.

[simonwest]

Great sounding desk,

Great operation

Quick to use and lets you think more like a mix engineer rather than a computer operator

 

DCA and POP groups are forward thinking, simple and allow for equivalent analogue speed in respect to mix adjustments.

B Section very useful for the 'star' channels,

 

I would recommend the desk to anyone

 

with respect to shortcuts, as mentioned POP group set ups are great. Also, there are assignable buttons and knobs in the top right section. You could assign a vocal aux send to one of these for example, so you've always got it there whatever page your on (unless you in fx editor in which these knobs are assigned to the fx adjustment page your on). There are 8 of these, they can be assigned to pretty much any option you require and would allow more speed.

 

the number one thing I'd say about this desk, is that as you get on the desk, you'll think ,"right... I need to do this", and in front of you will come the answer as visually it becomes easy to follow.

 

Colour assignments are recommended, as when you navigate through the desk it will become obvious as to what is assigned where.

 

Apart from this, I cant give too much useful advice (and above may seem obvious anyway) except to think in analogue mode rather than digital, as the desk is very quick with no drop out (such as changing the compressor modes etc and applying them mid show is not a problem as application is instant with no drop out)

 

 

 

HTH

 

Simon

[phil dekked]

My only hint...don`t allocate "black" as your pop or dca colours!!! :)

 

You can`t read anything on the button but presume its there for those "Hitchhiker G to T the G " moments.

 

.p.

[Joshwah]

I'm out with an XL8 till the end of the year which is a similar beast to the Pro 6 it actually has the next software release for the XL8 already shipped with the Pro 6.

 

As has been said it is a lot more analogue in feel than all the other digitial desks. A few things every channel has a Comp and Gate onboard so all you have to do is punch them in, which means its quick to add these in on the fly and there is various aduptations of Outboard compressor in the style of compression they do these can be scrolled through by just hitting the mode button, its worth having a listen to all of them.

 

This leaves the insert function free to use the insert point for either external outboard or items in the Effects rack (this contains Reverb, Delay, Flanger and usefully a Multiband Compressor) or both.

 

Oh also not sure if they've changed it now put when you first put a comp on by default the ratio is to infinty so it's worth rembering that.

 

One thing I see people slip up on and still sometimes do my self in a hurry is when EQing a channel start doing something and realise your on the wrong band, best thing is to get in the routine of selecting the the channel if your eqing by the band you want to use.

 

As simon siad the Pop groups are in valuable which is why the desk needs so few input channels once you get used to them you'll onder how you managed without.

 

I've got a colour scheme I try to work to for instruments that coincides with the pop groups so my drums are always red, bass blue, vocals white (as its the brightest and easiet to see. It does end up looking like something a lampy would use!!!

 

Thats all I can think off of my head any questions before you go just ask.

 

Josh

[simonwest]

Good advice Josh,

 

I'm glad to hear (via grapevine) that all is going well on your tour. Good to hear that most of the hotels you've had have been...luxury :** laughs out loud **:

 

Just out of curiosity, did they ever fixed the master stereo issue, where by if you muted that output and moved the fader. The stereo out didn't adjust to the new position?

 

I'm sure they did as Alex and co are very good, but just wondered.

 

Si

[Bobbsy]

Well, I had about 8 hours training and practice time on the Pro 6 and really liked it. I've used mainly Yamaha digital before (and a bit of Soundcraft, Digico and A&H) so there was a bit of a learning curve getting my head around POP groups rather than layers but, even so, the desk was very intuitive and, with only a few "gotchas" I could quickly find my way around.

 

Most impressive was the sound...it was extremely easy to get things "sitting nicely" in the mix. I was working with some pre recorded tracks I knew well but found it easier to put things together than it is even on a desk I know well. The colour coded POP groups and VCAs work well and actually resemble in functionality a way I've operated on multilayer Yammy boards before but more elegantly.

 

One of the big reasons the local theatre chose the Pro 6 was the flexibility in terms of the remote input/output boxes. In the local case, they actually have four (of different types), allowing two on the stage (either both sides or one in the wings and one, for example, under the drum stand), on (outputs only) in the amp room, and one in an old control room where it interfaces with a network of analogue tie lines that exist to points all over the building including up on the grid, in the flies, etc etc. This works really well.

 

However, rather than just say how nice the board is...and I'd happily use it in future though would like some more practice first!...I may as well note the gothchas and niggles I had in case they help anyone:

 

The automation cannot, at present, handle crossfades between scenes. Every transition is a hard "cut". I gather the next software update (due out any time now) is supposed to fix this, but this is a major lack for theatre use.

 

There's at present no off line editor for the desk which is a pain if, like me, you like to set up routings etc before you get to the venue.

 

Perhaps okay for you "stand up and boogie" rockers but the labels on the illuminated buttons were hard to read off-axis for us "sit down and play the SFX" theatre types.

 

The shortcut buttons beside the output trackball put routing and metering on the same button, with meters the second push of the same button. It soon becomes annoying having to push the button twice to bring back your meters every time.

 

Implementation of the tap delay (using the left click track ball button) is a bit clunky.

 

The touch sensitive controls are maybe TOO sensitive. It's easy to brush your wrist on one of the nearby controls and select something you don't intend to.

 

There are no sockets for standard gooseneck lamps and the inbuit strip lights above the screens isn't very effective.

 

...and the supersize glowing "Pro 6" logo would be taped over rapidly if it was my console!

 

For the record, except for the lack of cross fades, all the above are pretty minor niggles on an otherwise excellent mixing desk. I think I'll be doing a show on it in a couple of weeks, so we'll see how I get on using it in anger.

 

Bob

[MarkPAman]

Just in case you wondered (as I did) if a POP group was anything to do with Abba....

 

I went hunting and found this:

VCA-centric mixing and POPulation (POP) groups

The VCA-centric method of mixing was conceived around the way engineers

use visual recognition to navigate around a desk, rather than memorising

channels in numerical sequences. XL8 has been designed so the engineer

doesn’t have to think in terms of numbers, pages or layers. Users navigate the

system and identify channels by colours and groupings, which they themselves

create. VCA-centric mixing allows an individualised approach to the system,

rather than working within hardware-dictated numerical limitations. This

reassuringly familiar way of operating is central to the console, and ensures that

engineers don’t have to change their mindset to be able to mix on the XL8.

 

Assigning to VCAs (variable control association)

Press and hold desired VCA select button. Press channel select buttons to assign

to VCA. Release VCA select button to confirm selections. The assigned input

channels will adopt the VCA’s (user defined) colour as a default (this can

be edited).

 

Assigning to POP (population) groups

Population groups are created to bring a user-configured group of input

channels to a desired area of the control centre, for viewing or adjustment.

Press and hold desired POP group select button. Press channel select buttons

to assign to POP group. Release POP group select button to confirm selections.

The assigned input channels will adopt the POP groups (user defined) colour as

a default (this can be edited).

[Bobbsy]

...and here I thought it was just me who didn't know what a "POP Group" was until I downloaded the user manual (available on the Midas site by the way!).

 

Seriously, it's an unfortunately named but useful feature to operate alongside VCAs.

 

I've mixed many a show on a heavily populated DM1000 and, in several cases, I've found that the best way to operate was to not use simple layers but, rather, to change routing on scene pre-sets so, for example, on on scene I'll have the quartet singing, a group for the band, effects returns and some sound effects on the same layer...then in the next scene to have two lead characters, most of the chorus and a different set of effects returns.

 

The Pro 6 "POP Groups" work this way but with the luxury of colour coding of your sources and electronic labels for each source. They automatically select everything programmed to be part of a group and put them on the faders nearest the master section, working away.

 

Couple these groups with fairly conventional VCA working and the usual scene by scene automation on a digital desk and you have a powerful package for the sort of theatre use I have. I can see it working well for rock work too....but, in either case, a bit of pre planning is needed to get the best out of the system. It's probably not a system for walking up and doing things on the fly.

 

Bob

[simonwest]

Hi Bobbsy,

 

Just to add what I know is happening with the pro 6 in terms of your comments, please note I'm not a midas employee of any kind, its just questions I've asked / know people to have asked in the past and have received answers for.

 

The automation cannot, at present, handle crossfades between scenes. Every transition is a hard "cut". I gather the next software update (due out any time now) is supposed to fix this, but this is a major lack for theatre use.

 

This update is being released very soon

 

 

There's at present no off line editor for the desk which is a pain if, like me, you like to set up routings etc before you get to the venue.

There is one being developed, but at present will be Mac only

 

Perhaps okay for you "stand up and boogie" rockers but the labels on the illuminated buttons were hard to read off-axis for us "sit down and play the SFX" theatre types.

Fair comment, most people I know still use tape anyway but thats a fair comment

 

 

The shortcut buttons beside the output trackball put routing and metering on the same button, with meters the second push of the same button. It soon becomes annoying having to push the button twice to bring back your meters every time.

Again Fair comment

 

Implementation of the tap delay (using the left click track ball button) is a bit clunky.

on the next update, the tap function can be routed to the rotary knobs (the ones that can be assigned to any job) in the top right, i.e. a slight touch/tap will adjust the tap delay

 

The touch sensitive controls are maybe TOO sensitive. It's easy to brush your wrist on one of the nearby controls and select something you don't intend to.

 

There are no sockets for standard gooseneck lamps and the inbuit strip lights above the screens isn't very effective.

 

...and the supersize glowing "Pro 6" logo would be taped over rapidly if it was my console!

 

these above I'll have to think about the next time I'm near the desk as in honesty I never really thought about them

 

For the record, except for the lack of cross fades, all the above are pretty minor niggles on an otherwise excellent mixing desk. I think I'll be doing a show on it in a couple of weeks, so we'll see how I get on using it in anger.

 

I'm glad you said that, as that reflects most peoples views! The sound quality is engineered to be the best of xl3 / xl4 / heritage into the same desk, so you select the type of EQ / dynamics / personality you might prefer from various midas desks and qualities.

 

cheers

 

Simon

[Bobbsy]

Thanks for all that info, Simon. It confirms a number of the things we'd heard from the Midas distributor down here (but, with software updates, you never count your changes until they hatch...to mangle a cliche).

 

It's too bad they're going to limit the off-line editor to Macs as there's no way I can justify buying a Macbook just to prepare routing and programming for a mixer I use, at most, once or twice a month. (And, since several bits of my regular software are PC-only I'm not inclined to do a wholesale change!) I guess this is divine retribution for Yamaha making some of their Studio Manager software PC only.

 

Finally, I'll just echo what you said about the sound quality of the Pro 6. It's superb. As I said in my original post about my impressions, I was using some multitrack show recordings that I know well and I was amazed how easy it was to make things "sit nicely" in the mix compared even to mixers I thought I liked a lot.

 

Anyway, a big musical with lots of orchestra, radio mics, effects and even some MIDI triggered video playback coming up in a few weeks. If we don't know our way around the Pro 6 after that we never will!

 

Bob

[rlower]

Brilliant sound and interface. Very impressed.

I would hold off purchasing though for a few months - until reliability has been proven.

I heard one crash a few months back. It wasn't ear friendly!