PYROmaster Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Hey Guys! BR being my 2nd port of call for technical issues :I need a little help! I have a problem with a Betapack2 dimmer.When switched on the dimmer instantly trips out and trips the power for the hall (lighting only).We have 3 dimmers and only the one does this.The Desk is off.No fues blow at all. Also with the same dimmer it can trip out during use... - thankfully rehearsals in this caseBUT the trip switch for the dimmer is still at the ON position when I go to switch it back on, the dimmer is off and the trip switches are on.... We are slightly concerened as to the safety of this as once it stays on it's totally fine. Used for about 3 shows so far. Thanks in advance!I can't think of any other info at this precise moment but if you ask I will answer (if I can)Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleah Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 You have already tried the obvious....... but Does it do this with all chanels unplugged? i.e. the dimmer is only connected to the mains and nothing else, not even the control desk. If it stays on, then try one plug at a time and see what happens. Sorry if you've already done this..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PYROmaster Posted February 25, 2009 Author Share Posted February 25, 2009 Cheers for that,I haven't done that as the dimmer in question is hardwired so I need to go up on the rig and unplug everything from the LX bars.I have several hours to kill there tonight so I will try it and post back on my results. More thoughts welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Is it a rcd breaker, if so it may be capacitance earth leakage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonkiDonki Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 If you still have the same problem after disconnecting all the outputs from the dimmer, it might be worth getting your electrician to replace the RCD, or at least swap it with one from another dimmer. Then if it still happens with the same dimmer you know it is likely to be the dimmer itself which is faulty. If the fault goes away or moves to the other dimmer then you know you have a faulty RCD. That said, it's more likely that one of the lamps or the output cables is at fault. Unfortunately faultfinding cables on a hardwired dimmer is a bit of a chore compared to one with a hard patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Cheers for that,I haven't done that as the dimmer in question is hardwired so I need to go up on the rig and unplug everything from the LX bars.I have several hours to kill there tonight so I will try it and post back on my results. More thoughts welcome!Rather than run around the grid why not isolate each channel from the fuses/breakers on the dimmer rack ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baldwin Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Rather than run around the grid why not isolate each channel from the fuses/breakers on the dimmer rack ?? Because that won't isolate the neutrals of the connected loads.One possible cause of the symptoms described is an RCD tripping due to leakage from neutral to earth in a faulty attached appliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Rather than run around the grid why not isolate each channel from the fuses/breakers on the dimmer rack ?? Because that won't isolate the neutrals of the connected loads.One possible cause of the symptoms described is an RCD tripping due to leakage from neutral to earth in a faulty attached appliance.Appreciate that, BUT it certainly would be a quicker place to start - isolating the live leg via the fuse/breaker will at least identify a fault on that side - I would personally start there and work up if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PYROmaster Posted February 25, 2009 Author Share Posted February 25, 2009 Not sure what type of breaker it is, I will check tonight...Ynot, How do you isolate each channel on the dimmer rack when it is hardwired ? (sorry if I'm being stupid here)Im not one for going routing around in the mains (unless you can unplug it) We should be getting an electrician in pretty soon, as this is not the only problem with the electrics so will get them to test out the swap of breakers. Cheers guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Ynot, How do you isolate each channel on the dimmer rack when it is hardwired ? (sorry if I'm being stupid here)Beta pack 2s should have an individual fuse per channel - regardless of hardwired or sockets they MUST be protected as individual lines.Looking at the pics on the brochure here they look very much in the same place as socketed packs - hardly surprising! As Tom rightly points out that will only disconnect one leg of the line out to the circiuits in the grid, but as it will be the live line that's a good place to start. Drop all of the fuses out to start with, then turn the rack on.Carefully replace each fuse one at a time and see if the RCD trips at all. It's up to you whether you want to replace the fuses with power off to the rack though it should be perfectly safe to do so with it live. This is the basis of all fault finding - check the easy stuff first, using process of elimination, then move on to the trickier options if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PYROmaster Posted February 25, 2009 Author Share Posted February 25, 2009 Cheers for that, I was just being stupid there then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinE Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Which..Is it an mcb or rcd that it's tripping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PYROmaster Posted February 25, 2009 Author Share Posted February 25, 2009 Hey, I'm back to report...Breaker is MCB/RCD HagerAd010B 104205B32 l<insert triangle>n 30mA 230V~ - - - - - - - - --4500<switch and reset button> - - - - - MCB/RCD thats all the info off the front of the breaker, you guys will understand it more than me ;) Took all the fuses out and switched it on, no problem so far.....allbeit that one of the fuse lights doesn't work.... (don't know if that is significant) Switched it off put fuse in ch1....on.... okOff moved fuse to ch2..... on..... oketc.... Then, did as above but instead of taking the fuse out of the last channel left it in....got to channel 5 and it tripped when switched on... Went to switch it back on (after taking that fuse out), found the breaker stuck in the middle between on and off...switched it off properly, switched it back on and ... well.... ziltch... nothing... not even the DMX error light.... I'm in the sh** now if its the dimmer that has gone... but from the way the breaker stuck in the middle something makes me think that its the breaker that needs replacing....Correct me if I am wrong ;) An electrician has been booked, but I haven't been told when for... soon I hope... Does anyone know if this is a common problem for hardwired betapack2s because the other dimmer seems to be starting to go the same way, but the one and only patchable dimmer we have is totally fine, not even a flicker.... Over to you...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulDF Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Not sure on that particular brand of breaker - (sounds like an RCBO). Some need to have the lever pressed to the fully off position before they can be reset again, if you press the test button will the RCBO trip? The middle position is sometimes used to indicate that it tripped on an earth leakage as opposed to an overload, if the fault still exists the breaker will refuse to reset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinE Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Sounds like youve blown an internal fuse in the dimmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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