jason.fallon Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Hi all. I'm sure this topic has cropped up before at some stage but I cant find it in the search so I'll just put it out there. Is there an issue with inserting DN360 graphics? Can anybody shed some light on the situation... Thanks Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmills Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Not that I know of. One thing to watch is that they have a bypass relay when powered down, which is not IMHO the most user friendly of features, but running them off inserts is a very, very standard sort of thing to do. Regards, Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Beech Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 The DN360 is pin 3 hot by default, the older ones were unbalanced too. So actually it is fairly important that they're wired correctly, especially if you are using unbalanced insert leads. They also catch fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatfrog Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 The DN360 is pin 3 hot by default, the older ones were unbalanced too. So actually it is fairly important that they're wired correctly, especially if you are using unbalanced insert leads. They also catch fire. Catch fire??? Please elaborate rob? Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Beech Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 I've had 2 in the last 4 months catch fire. Without warning the transformers get stupidly hot and catch fire. One is an old model (late 80's) and the other from about 3 years ago. Not entirely sure why. I have 2 more with other faults. Sound great but don't seem to be proving reliable for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound Juice Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 They also catch fire. A fantastic reply there Rob, sounds as if your used to stuff randomly catching fire?I've seen one get very warm but never catch fire?! But that was outside in direct sunlight so we were checking everything all day till the 'tent-like thing' arrived Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappie Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Hmmmmm, two KTs and a Venice Rob......... Have we discovered some sort of superhero power? Were you the inspiration for a couple of characters in Heros? One thing to watch is that they have a bypass relay when powered downMany people like to remove the relays, prefering the unit to stop passing audio rather than suffer the potential consequences of a bucket load of gain at certain frequencies being thrown at them if the unit fails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drsound Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Interesting, I've got to say I've never known of one catch fire even with multiple units racked for monitors and no ventilation to speak of. Also they've been ultra-reliable (touch wood, I bet they all fail this afternoon!). Inserting graphics is the de facto way of doing things although you will find the odd rider that requests them in-line. Personal preference really, there's no right and wrong, just pros and cons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Beech Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 This is not a case of lack of ventilation. This is a fault with a unit that develops, somehow. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Hope-Streeter Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Is there an issue with inserting DN360 graphics?<br /><br />Can anybody shed some light on the situation...<br /><br /><br />Thanks<br /><br />Jay<br /> To elaborate on what Rob says: These use the obsolete wiring standard of XLR Pin 3 Hot, which was standard in the USA until around 1980 when everyone agreed to use Pin 2. (AES Standard) Well, I say "everyone", but Crest amplifiers, KT EQ's, and BSS compressors decided to carry on regardless due to a need to maintain consistency with existing products in the field. With fully balanced inputs and outputs it doesn't matter which pin is hot, provided you use the same pin on the in and out when connecting to unbalanced equipment. If your DN360 does not have the output transformers fitted, Pin 2 is linked to Pin 1 on the output connector to give an unbalanced output with Pin 3 hot. This means that if you use a standard insert cable, which is wired for unbalanced inputs and outputs using XLR Pin 2 hot and Pins 1 & 3 earth, the output of the 360 will be shorted and you will have no signal return. So you need to use polarity reverse (Pin Swap) adaptors between the outputs of the DN360 and the insert cable. Having done that you now have a polarity reverse through the unit because you are driving input Pin 2 (the inverting input), so you should preferably use another polarity reverser at the DN360 input. It's easier to make up some Pin Swap jumpers (clearly labelled and using bright yellow cable) than to mess about with non-standard insert leads which are sure to get sent out on a job by mistake one day (just like those ones you made up for the Soundcrafts that had Ring Send & Tip Return ... ) I have never heard of DN 360's catching fire or suffering from overheated transformers. The only things that seem to go wrong are the relays. Transformers usually cook due to low mains frequency (slow generator) or wrong mains voltage (400V instead of 230). You must be very unlucky Rob! I have seen speakers catch fire though ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drsound Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 This is not a case of lack of ventilation. This is a fault with a unit that develops, somehow.I'd be interested to hear if anyone's ever worked out what the problem is. Power supply related I'd imagine. It's a bit alarming to hear you had it with a new-ish model. If it's a known fault you would expect a copmany of KT's reputation to have sorted it out after 20 odd years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tall_phill Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 The DN360 is pin 3 hot by default, the older ones were unbalanced too. So actually it is fairly important that they're wired correctly, especially if you are using unbalanced insert leads. They also catch fire. The KT website still lists them as Pin 3 Hot with an unbalanced out, unless the optional transformers were specified. If they have a balanced output it is either a recent occurrence or they have been poor in updating the documentation. These points alone, and irrespective of my general dislike of graphic eqs, make me rather wary about using them. I eagerly look forward to seeing one engulfed in flames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappie Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 If the DN360 is the same as the DN405 and DN410 parametrics, they come pin 3 hot as standard but there are jumpers inside for changing this. Its a simple job to lift the lid off and swap them round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Beech Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 The D504's I use are the same. It's rare I need to use eq on anything but regularly get requested for them and I tend to put them in just incase, but eq is always a last resort. Better to prevent problems than just mask them with eq IMO. It must be a PSU issue, it gets red hot within a couple of minutes and the burning smell starts soon after. Then the smoke starts. I THOUGHT that they were made balanced by default now, only 2 of my 7 are balanced and they're the newest 2. Of course that could be coincidence and they may still be unbalanced by default. I won't deny they're a damn good sounding eq when functioning, which is why my eq's are exclusively DN360's and DN9340's, but with the reliability record (4 failures, 2 of which catastrophic in 6 months) I'm starting to look elsewhere so keep an eye out anyone who's wanting some cheap eq's shortly once they're all serviced and fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmills Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 It must be a PSU issue, it gets red hot within a couple of minutes and the burning smell starts soon after. Then the smoke starts. Check the rectifier diodes.... It could be a shorted turn on the transformer, but I would be slightly surprised to have two go that way from batches that far apart. Regards, Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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