JasonTolliver Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 My band owns an Alesis ADAT HD24 and uses it quite extensively for click and additional tracks for the performance. We're looking for a way to prerecord a DMX controlled light show , since we really don't have the option of bringing along a lighting tech to control the whole thing right now. Basically, the drummer controls the HD24 from his location; chooses the song, hits play, etc.... Is there any way to sync something that can record DMX with something like the HD24?? I originally thought that maybe we could use a few channels on the actual HD24 to record whatever DMX info we needed, output from perhaps a USB-DMX dongle and software from a computer... Unfortunately I later realized that DMX samples at around 250kps and the HD24 only does 44.1kps... some 200,000 samples per second short.... silly me. Anybody have any ideas how this could be accomplished?? Thanks! -Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryson Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 SMPTE Timecode. Record timecode onto one of the tracks, feed it to a lighting console that will take timecode, and off you go. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMPTE_time_code Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonTolliver Posted February 15, 2009 Author Share Posted February 15, 2009 SMPTE Timecode. Record timecode onto one of the tracks, feed it to a lighting console that will take timecode, and off you go. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMPTE_time_code Why thank you so much! Just to make sure I understand: I place SMPTE time code on one of my tracks, link that up with a console. I have the "show" (perhaps split into seperate songs?) recorded on the console. I pull up the appropriate song on both the HD24 and lighting console. When I press play on the HD24, the timecode thus begins telling the console to play the lights? Can you just tell the lighting console "play" and it will play the appropriate cues at the appropriate times?(Sorry I'm a little new to all this!!) Basically, I want to design the show, based upon songs that never change, on my computer and put them on a console and never touch them after that; just say 'play' and 'stop'.. Are there any simple consoles that can do simply that? I'm just thinking of costs here, I really don't need to control a single aspect live except for playing pre-recorded cues.. Any thoughts?? Again thank you so much for the help!! -Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryson Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Yep, pretty much exactly that: My experience with the system comes form working on Cruise Ships - basically the show was on a Digital Multitrack machine, with one track as timecode and fed to the desk(s). The cues in the desk each had a corresponding timecode reference, and would go as soon as the timecode got to that point. I'm not sure about a simple console with the ability to understand timecode: I'm sure other members will be along to advise soon. I know that if you get a SMPTE box, then MagicQ will work. I'm sure there are many others. All you would need to do is double-check that the timecode link is working just before each show. Usually that involves a bit of "pre-roll" on the multitrack and a few "dummy" cues on the console that don't actually do anything. Then you press play and you're away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Its easier than that. The HD24 will output MTC - MIDI Timecode. So you dont need to sacrifice a track for LTC, or deal with the crosstalk problems that LTC often causes 'cos its a really horrible audio signal, or interface SMPTE to something. Just plug in the MIDI cable, read the manual(!), press a few buttons, and thats the "from" end sorted. For the "to" end you plug MTC into something that can do lighting control and knows how to"chase" to MTC, and you're all done. In terms of what to feed MTC to if your budget can stand it I'd suggest the a look at the Artistic Licence four-play. There is also now the much cheaper Art-Play, available in 1 2 or 4 universes, but you'll need an ArtNet to DMX512 converter as well, and I know nothing about it as its new. Also the LANBox can do this sort of thing well. Get a really great LD in to light your performance one time, record it, and play forever. You could also use many bits of PC software, or most decent lighting consoles, but frankly, if you're running a canned show I'd make the lighting canned as well and have the ease and portability of a rack solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 I would recommend getting a real console rather than a playback unit. Playback units are intended for situations like architectural and theme parks where the same show is run several times a day. If you use a playback unit like the Four-Play, you have to use something else to create each show and it's difficult to change it afterwards - probably not so good for a band with a wide repertoire! If you've got a real console, then you can easily edit the show at any time without additional equipment. This also gives you the option of occasionally hiring a lighting technician for a 'larger' gig that can justify it. Many mid-range and higher lighting consoles can take MTC directly, but check carefully as not all do! Without knowing your budget it's hard to suggest a particular range, but the Congo Jr is one option that fits inside a 19" equipment rack, although it is more expensive than an AL Four-Play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangerMouse Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 ShowMagic is perfect for this, and it supports multichannel audio also, so you can do away with your Alesis! I've been evaluating the free 24 channel version for a few weeks now, and whilst it takes a while to get your head round (well it took me a while) its incredibly flexible, and editing shows at a later date seems fairly easy too! Haven't actually tried it with multichannel audio yet, but so far I haven't had any problems with it. I'd love to hear other peoples opinions on this software - reliability etc.... and also on any possible software alternatives before I actually spend money buying a version with more DMX channels so I can run a bigger light show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljoshua Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I don't see the point in replacing a decent multi track playback machine. I'd use the MTC output of the HD24 with MagicQ for the Lights. What lights do you actually have? If it is just par cans then it will be a lot easier to program than if you have half a dozen or more movers. Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I dont think ShowMagic has any realistic alternatives. Theres lots of software that arguably does bits of what ShowMagic does "better", but nothing with the breadth of function. The nearest I know of is PCStage which lacks decent moving light support, has less flexible audio playback, no integrated powerpoint support, and only single video output capability, but has all the other tricky stuff, such as MIDI, GPI, buttons, scheduling etc etc etc. Also of consideration is LightFactory which has all the lighting one could want, plus "simple" media playback. All that said the OP has a HD24, and that is a highly decent solution for part of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangerMouse Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I don't see the point in replacing a decent multi track playback machine. Absolutely - I completely agree. However, I was just trying offer a solution that the OP may not have considered. The main advantage of switching to a system such as Showmagic would be bring all hardware into one laptop. It would also be useful to know what lighting rig the OP is looking to run - as the 24 channel version is free and if they're just using pars then there is plenty you can do with 24 channels - and whilst cost has not been particularly mentioned, it may be a factor to consider. I dont think ShowMagic has any realistic alternatives. Theres lots of software that arguably does bits of what ShowMagic does "better", but nothing with the breadth of function. The nearest I know of is PCStage which lacks decent moving light support, has less flexible audio playback, no integrated powerpoint support, and only single video output capability, but has all the other tricky stuff, such as MIDI, GPI, buttons, scheduling etc etc etc. Also of consideration is LightFactory which has all the lighting one could want, plus "simple" media playback. All that said the OP has a HD24, and that is a highly decent solution for part of the problem. Thanks for suggesting those alternatives.....I'll definitely be evaluating them before making any final purchase - though it looks like showmagic is going to be the solution. I'm only looking at the lower end of the scale - 64 channels so all the video stuff isn't important for me at the moment. But the support for moving lights is defintely an important factor, and the fact that I've already got the DMX interface for showmagic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljoshua Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 The main advantage of switching to a system such as Showmagic would be bring all hardware into one laptop. Personally, I would prefer not to bring all hardware (Lighting and Sound playback) onto one laptop. presumably running windows. It would mean a single point of failure. With a split system, the Sound coming from a stable hardware playback machine. The lighting coming from, in the case of MagicQ it could be run from a Linux based system. Not to say that Linux is more stable, even though IMO it is, it is harder to break Linux once it works as intended. If the lighting went down, you could still have the sound working from the HD24. If the link between the two breaks you could still have a basic state on the LX desk for general cover. Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henny Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 hi , I have another vote for lanbox, http://www.lanbox.com/ I can be a black box playback device from mtc or a full live desk with the addtion of a laptop. you would need the lcx at only €550 , or then again the lcm has midi at €320, but I dont know if it has the timecode function also you program it over rs232 . also with the LCX if you need another universe you can network it with an LCE for 512 more channels all the way up to 3072. it also has analouge in's for switches ect. also it can send DMX between boxes over wifi. ive done it in an event in an office block atrium, with 8 city colours on the 6th floor on an LCE, front lighing on the 3rd floor balconey on another LCE and some macs and leds on and round the stage on an lcx whitch was taking timcode from a watchout server vire a smpte/midi converter. I plotted the show from a laptop on the 1st floor. with everything talking using wifi, the show then ran just off timecode from the watchout rig just with a few manual cues ran from a windows mobile pda runing ther mobile sofwhere. - all good fun programing a lanbox is a bit of a steep learning curve but once you have their logic in your head it all makes sence and you see it a verry powefull bit of kit. you can download the softwhere for free and connect to a lanbox accross the web they have setup for testing/demo use. one thing with lanbox, dont think of it as another usb-DMX converter. it is a full lighting desk just with no buttons or knobs. all the cues are stored/ran/proccessed in the box, but you can back it up to your pc. any more questions just ask ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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