andrewgates23 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Hi all Hope this isn't too much of a rehash of previous threads - couldn't find quite what I was looking for in the search. I'm about to buy a new desk and full set of outboard. It's to run FOH for live gigs running recently renovated ASS..... mainly relatively small stuff some indoors some out - largest set-up running about 15K FOH. I can only spend about another 2K (UK) for the desk and outboard, (3 or just over at a real push). Need a minimum of 24 mono inputs, 32 would be preferable but not essential. I've been looking at an Allen & Heath desk, at the moment the PA28 seems like a good option due to its price and the built in FX leaving me just compressors and gates to add..... though which compressors and gates within my price range I'm not sure at all right now. I'm more than tempted with the option of going digital but it seems that I'm priced considerably out of the market on a suitable digital desk. Does anyone know of anything digital that I could afford that sounds alright? or could anyone recommend a combination of analogue desk and outboard within the price range that would be suitable? Alternatively I'm wondering if it would make sense to buy a really cheap option of analogue kit with a view to saving some of the current budget and then waiting until I can get some more money together to buy into a digital desk? Sorry if that's quite a lot of questions at once.... got a real head scratching one on at the mo. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Ross Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 At that kind of budget you are not going to get a ls9-32 or even a ls9-16 with another 8 channels via ADAT or even a straight ls9-16! However all is not lost, for the top end of your budget you could just about get a TASCAM DM-3200 which has 16 mic channels and then add another 8 via ADAT and be just under budget. Whilst I do prefer the layout of the LS9 and other variants the Tascam is a perfectly usable desk in a live situation. The only problem you might run into is visiting band engineers who might not be used to the Tascam interface but to be honest I find it quite an easy desk to navigate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian hatch Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Hi all Hope this isn't too much of a rehash of previous threads - couldn't find quite what I was looking for in the search. I'm about to buy a new desk and full set of outboard. It's to run FOH for live gigs running recently renovated ASS..... mainly relatively small stuff some indoors some out - largest set-up running about 15K FOH. I can only spend about another 2K (UK) for the desk and outboard, (3 or just over at a real push). Need a minimum of 24 mono inputs, 32 would be preferable but not essential. I've been looking at an Allen & Heath desk, at the moment the PA28 seems like a good option due to its price and the built in FX leaving me just compressors and gates to add..... though which compressors and gates within my price range I'm not sure at all right now. I'm more than tempted with the option of going digital but it seems that I'm priced considerably out of the market on a suitable digital desk. Does anyone know of anything digital that I could afford that sounds alright? or could anyone recommend a combination of analogue desk and outboard within the price range that would be suitable? Alternatively I'm wondering if it would make sense to buy a really cheap option of analogue kit with a view to saving some of the current budget and then waiting until I can get some more money together to buy into a digital desk? Sorry if that's quite a lot of questions at once.... got a real head scratching one on at the mo. :DI wouldn't go the really cheap analogue route IE: to save money for the digital desk because by the time you have saved enough money for the digital option, you and everyone else involved with the gigs will be sooo feed up with the crappy stuff that it's proberly not worth the heartache.I think a much better option would be some fairly decent kit at sensible money and wait a few years until the digital market comes down in price. SUGGESTED KIT OPTION:Allen & Heath GL2400 (24/32 inputs)Lexicon MX200 FX unit (brilliant peice of kit for the money, about £160)Behringer Multi-gate (can't think of the model number at the moment) " Dual compressor x2 ( " ) I know people will turn thier noses up at the Behringer kit but to be fair for the money I think they are really hard to beat.Along with the DI100 DI boxes I think the above pieces of kit are among the best items Behringer make.The above options would leave you with money left over to put towards the DI boxes and good mic cables, if needed. Hope this helps.Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cedd Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I've seen Yamaha o2R's used in a live setting (mainly theatre though) and they've worked well. In this instance it was two chained together. That's 16 x analogue inputs per desk (8 are mic and line, 8 are line) plus expansion space via ADAT. Cheapo external preamps will do the job fine. o2R's are currently about £600 on ebay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 You could get an 01V(96), an MY8AT expansion card and 2 Behringer ADA8000 units for around the same cost as the PA28. This would give you 28 mic inputs and 2 stereo inputs, good quality effects and gate/compressor on every channel. As for sounding good, you probably hear something that's been through an O1V on just about every feature film and TV show you watch. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Siddons Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 2nd vote for the Tascam route , I use a Dm24 with focusrite Octopre for the extra 8 channels. Haven't had, touch wood, any serious problems with visiting engineers. Only extra outboard you will need is graphics for FOH and monitors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonaudio Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 You could get an 01V(96), an MY8AT expansion card and 2 Behringer ADA8000 units for around the same cost as the PA28. This would give you 28 mic inputs and 2 stereo inputs, good quality effects and gate/compressor on every channel. As for sounding good, you probably hear something that's been through an O1V on just about every feature film and TV show you watch. Bob +1 for that! As I was reading down the replies I was thinking the best option would be to get the Yammy O1V(96), great little desk, very adaptable and no big difference in running 16 or 32 channels, has all the procssing and dynamics you need built in and the exp cards ain't too expensive and the ADA8000s are perfect to go with it. All that for well with in your budget if you go second hand and around or slightly over budget if u buy new. Its very easy for a visiting engineer to adapt to as its intuitive and similar to the LS9 series. But Bobbsy has beat me to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_hate_fisicks Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Get looking at the second hand market (ebay, LMC, concerttrade etc.). Analogue consoles are proper bargainous these days, especially older ones. Concerttrade just sold a 24 channel Soundcraft Series 5 for £2000! There are many options. I just had a quick look and saw a GL2800-24 for £1800, or a Soundcraft K3-40 for £2500. If you're willing to have an older one, you could probably pick up something like a TAC Scorpion or a Soundcraft 500 for pennies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinvegas Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I would go digital if you can. My choice would be to save up a little extra and look for a 2nd hand LS932. I saw an LS932 2nd hand for £2800 recently. I have never used the Tascam so cannot comment on that unit, but any touring engineer at the level your talking about should be happy with it as long as they have a competent baby sitter. Lets face it if its a bigger act there will probably be a budget to hire in a desk or they will bring their own. I have an O1V and can also give that option a thumbs up althought the LS (budget permitting) would be my prefured option. As for your outboard, have a look on ebay etc.. their are some bargins out there. Behringer stuff is good for the money but I have found it can be a bit tempremental if your carting it around a lot. I hope this helps Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hounsome Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 have a look at the Roland M400 system for a digital desk not sure what the price is? but if going analog get the best you can and avoided Behringer desks as I can never get enough clairty out f the Pre amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewgates23 Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 Thanks for the info guys. Just been looking at the 01V option.... the digital route seems really appealing to me at the mo and LS9 still seems a bit of or range (could do with grabbing a few more 58's and spare cables etc out of what I've got left). Excuse my ignorance on digital desks (only ever used analogue) but with the expansion card and ADA8000 I'd have 28 XLR in's.... how many could I run at one time..... can I assign the faders to a channel, set it, and then reassign the fader? Just a little nervous at ending up with only 16 channels at a time. While I'm here does anyone have any experience of the Beyma 21 inch cones? A friend of mine is looking at getting some and building large scoops to house them. The bottom end on my current set-up only goes down to 2x15 scoops, and while they sound really nice they only go down to 35Hz and for some styles (to be honest the only time I've noticed them lack is with dubstep) they could do with something else filling out the really deep lows. So thinking of adding the Beyma scoops when necessary and kicking just 25-35 or maybe 25-40 through them....? A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on. also wondering how well the 01v ages and travels - most of my work in the summertime is carting into fields... would a second hand unit stand up to the challenge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mervaka Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 35Hz is pretty low, mang! I doubt you need anything lower than that, whatever style you're playing. are you planning on keeping the 2x15" boxes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Re: the extra channels, you have multiple layers on the 01V (and most other digital boards including the LS9). Basically, inputs 1-16 are on layer 1, then, at a push of a button, you select layer 2 and get inputs 17-32. The faders are motorised so, in the blink of an eye, they're showing the settings on the appropriate channels. It goes farther...another layer will have all your auxes etc on it. It sounds awkward (and, admittedly, takes a short while to get used to) but after a while it becomes second nature...and I swap layers on my Yamaha boards faster than I can get from one end to the other of the 48 channel Midas at my local theatre. As for touring, the 01V is a solid professional machine and, so long as it has a decent case, should have no problem. There are thousands on the road. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewgates23 Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 yeah I know 35hz is pretty low..... like I say it's only with dubstep I've had a problem (and that's only on certain producers tracks too). (sorry had to edit - my question was answered earlier on) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinvegas Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I can also vouch for O1V, just get a decent flightcase from somewhere like flightcase warehouse and you will be fine. I have found the Yamaha digital gear to be extremely reliable, much more so than Alan and Heath analogue desks. A couple of years ago a punter poured a whole pint over an M7 I was running at a sold out show, we wiped it down and it ran until the end of the gig without a problem (I was sweating for the whole encore waiting for it to die). Its been dried out and cleaned and still works fine today AFAIK. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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