company touring lighting desk

[mikienorth]

Hello

 

I would like to purchase a lighting desk for my touring dance company. I would like it to be adapted to our currents shows (generics only, approx 120 circuits needed, 150 cues), but since it represents a sizeable investment, adapted also to work we might want to do in the future (such as moving lights, or more complex shows).

 

- something straightforward to work with in theater style shows

- at least 12 physical faders

- crossfade, go, and grand master

- he likes the avab presto a lot

- since it represents a sizeable investment, I'd prefer it be a recent desk

- we tour very light, it should be a very light desk, 10kgs at most, around 5-6kgs preferred, but robust

- having recently been through a desk failure with 8 hours of work in it, 1 hour before curtain, I would absolutely like to have a backup system. We always have computers on tour, so I was thinking the ideal would be to have the desk software, maybe with a wing, on the computer, as a backup. (but I am open to other backup systems, as long as they add very little weight).

 

As Gareth said almost as a reflex from reading the above, and the post above me also mentions. I also thought instantly of the ETC/AVAB Congo Jr.

 

Stragihtforward for theatre type work. It is that.

12 Playback faders. If you purchase the wing, sadly not without

Crossfade, Go, Grand master. Yep.

AVAB. It is marketed using AVAB, so is probably very familiar to him, possibly even more so if not run in 'at mode'

Recent. Latest software release last month, updating a major software re-write less than a year old.

Touring light. Once programmed, the desk could be made to run without it's wing. I reckon you'd struggle to get a more powerful desk as small as that. Hand luggage without wings or screens, easy.

Backupable with currently travelled IT. I will need help with this bit, but is this what congo client is? As the desk is based on XP, I would be suprised if there was not this sort of backup available. We run our congo system with a file server and a congo lightserver on the network.

 

As for other suggstions for spec.

 

Future proof. I should expect so, for what the OP needs. A flock of congos operated eurovision 2005, movers, generics, media servers, LED, etc. I think the OP can only dream that big just now.

Output Ethernet/Artnet/ACN/SACN? Does that, but our YEAR OLD venue has ethernet distribution and about 14 DMX input points as well, with nodes able to go both ways should anyone want to use a pearl for example.

 

A Congo does generics well, it does movers well. It is small and speaks in AVAB code. It speaks DMX and Ethernet. It can and does talk to PC's

 

For this situation, pehaps price may be an issue, but I would seriously suggest you get it for a test evaluation. I work daily with congos (5 big, one junior) and although at times they have been more use as a hammer, mostly that was my learning. I'm not going to lie, sometimes they crash, sometimes they do worse than that, but on the whole they are great, and sound like almost the ideal solution this time. The backup at ETC is second to none - email a question and they sort you out fast.

[rezmu]

No replies about the Mentor or Jester I mentioned. Bad ideas ?

• The Mentor can be connected to a PC/laptop for tracking backup purposes, via a crossover Ethernet cable. The laptop/PC can also be used for pre-plotting and then the show synchro'd to the main console when at the venue. There is no special specification for the laptop/PC.
  

 

I'm having trouble finding the exact description this laptop backup package for the Mentor: what software and hardware would be needed (Isis pro, no wings available ?), what would be the functionality (synced failthrough from the Mentor during a show ? exactly that of the Mentor, or different), what total price ?

I'd be grateful for a bit more details on that.

 

Also if anybody would care to comment on how the Mentor compatible laptop-based backup package would compare to the Chamsys laptop-based backup package ?

 

Many thanks,

 

sam

[Just Some Bloke]

The lighting I've liked the most was often done with generics by a LD with a lot of talent and imagination, rather than by adding many complex technologies that don't always really serve the overall work.

 

:) :) ;) :** laughs out loud **: Well said, that man! :** laughs out loud **: :huh: :D :D

 

 

If you think that great ideas will come to or your LD will be motivated by a new desk then you need to get a new LD.

 

On the other hand, if my LD has a desk with a lot of potential, he may be motivated to use it and have interesting ideas for my next pieces, though being greatly attached to generics, it's quite doubtful.

Sounds to me like he's got a terrific LD already!

 

 

You need to let your LD and Production Manager know there is budget for a new desk, and let them decide.

 

Read further back - the LD doesn't care too much what the desk is as he's more interested in the creative aspects of lighting design than the technical aspects of programming.

 

... which is probably why he's such a good LD! :huh:

 

It sounds perfectly fair to me that the bloke who's paying for it should have some input into what he's buying!

[Barney]

I'm having trouble finding the exact description this laptop backup package for the Mentor: what software and hardware would be needed (Isis pro, no wings available ?), what would be the functionality (synced failthrough from the Mentor during a show ? exactly that of the Mentor, or different), what total price ?

I'd be grateful for a bit more details on that.

 

Hi Sam,

 

The backup laptop does not need to be anything special, and the ISISplus software can be downloaded for free for the amount of channels/universes etc you are looking for.

 

If you want a specific ADB backup system, they offer a pre-configured PC tower which you would order along with the Mentor. It is also available in a 4U rackmount unit for flight-casing/touring.

 

Probably the best way of creating a backup system would be to connect the Mentor and laptop/PC to an Ethernet switch (using straight-through cables), and also having an ArtNet to DMX converter attached to the switch. If the main console goes down or stops transmitting DMX data over Ethernet, the tracking backup takes over and starts transmitting the DMX data, which is converted to 'traditional 5-pin' DMX by the ArtNet-DMX node.

 

As the laptop/PC is fully synchronised with the main console, it would be in the same configuration and status (cue lists, running chases and effects, submaster levels, etc) if it were ever needed.

 

Hardware wise, you would run the show direct from the laptop keyboard (e.g Shift-F1 = Crossfade1 Go)

 

For prices, and confirmation of system setup, try contacting Blue-Room member LBLight.

 

 

Best regards,

Barney

[Aubs Tredget]

The key to buying a console in my opinion, is not to rush into anything. It's horses for courses and there a number of different options out there that fit both your specs and your budget. Hopefully you and your LD will have the luxury of sufficent time to experiment with one or two before you decide.

 

Most manufacturers will let you play with a demo for a couple of weeks. If you would like to road test a maXim MP for instance, please let me know and I will arrange for the distributor White Light to send you one. It will happily handle your generics, will give you the head room you need for MLs in the future, and is still within your budget.

 

Feel free to contact me if you need any additional information.

 

Cheers,

[Barney]

The key to buying a console in my opinion, is not to rush into anything.

 

Good advice! Try before you buy is always the best way to find a console that suits you and the way you work.

 

... If you would like to road test a maXim MP for instance ...

 

As far as I recall, the LSC Maxim range do not have a theatrical crossfade, which was one of the OPs requirements.

 

The alternative would be the ADB Domino range, which has the exact same specification as the Maxim, but with the dedicated Stage/Preset crossfade required :blink:

 

HTH,

Barney

[lxhipster]

Have you considered the Compulite DLITE Compact?

It has 20 playbacks and a crossfader which is linked to the

Q List and It does have a PC Version.

 

I've been using the DLITE family of consoles for three years

now and I am really satisfied with it. It also has capabilities

for adding Moving Lights and Scrollers, so if you would want

to add them in the future, then you are all set.

 

Specs could be viewed here:

http://www.compulite.com/index.php?page_id=92

 

PS: I am not related to any manufacturers, but DLITE would

be my choice for smaller shows.

[sirrus]

In an ideal world, I'd point you to a price for the upcoming Zero88 ORB ( http://www.orbdesk.com/ ) but it’s not out yet, so if you can wait... then my vote would go to that, but if you cant then...

 

On a side note... just browsing along the Zero88 website and the Leapfrog is looking good... http://www.zero88.com/en/products/2/88 ...I am fully aware that you would be short with the manual faders (as the largest model only goes up to 96) and therefore you would have to use some of the 200 fixture spaces allocated for moving fixtures, but I have had to do this in the past with a JesterML48 and didn’t mind it at all, the fixtures just behave as manual faders (no tagging required). However it runs the new Zero88 desk operating system (ZerOS), which is not bad at all. The desk is simple, yet powerful and based on the Frog2 and Orb, both excellent desks in my opinion. And the price tag is not as scary as you might think.

 

I should imagine that a zero88 man should be along if you get interested in this to provide a backup solution, there used to be a box available called the FrogBox for the line of Frog desks, which was basically a playback unit, but I expect that this has long since been out dated

 

Failing that, I have nothing bad at all to say about Chamsys and MagicQ :P So they would be next on the list. Or maybe something strand, as they have some medium sized consoles that would meet your requirements. And of course you could always get a very high speck desk second hand or something :D

 

Sirrus

[david.elsbury]

How can you seriously recommend a console that isn't even released yet!

Sirrus, your post really doesn't contain much useful content...

[sirrus]

How can you seriously recommend a console that isn't even released yet!

Sirrus, your post really doesn't contain much useful content...

 

Not at this present time, however as I realised recently, it is inevitable that in the foreseeable future at some point somebody will come to the BR with a similar, if not exactly the same problem and find the solution on the BR. I accept that at first glace my post may have seemed slightly off the point, and in this respect I would agree that my post 'does not contain any useful content' however it could also be the fact that the ORB might come out sooner than people think and in time for the dance company's purchase of a future console. And if nobody puts it on the table then its not there is it?

 

It also provokes the dance company’s interest into the ORB and ZerOS based Zero88 Consoles, and to people whom might not have known about the products previously.

 

 

Sorry to have 'not posted much useful content', as I have clearly irritated you.

 

sirrus

[gareth]

In an ideal world, I'd point you to a price for the upcoming Zero88 ORB... my vote would go to that...

 

... just browsing along the Zero88 website and the Leapfrog is looking good ... both excellent desks in my opinion ...

 

... I have nothing bad at all to say about Chamsys and MagicQ

 

When considering advice such as the above, you might also do well to consider something which I posted a few days ago :

One thing to be aware of when asking a question about lighting consoles on this forum - you'll get a very broad mix of people replying to your question. At one end of the scale, you'll have professional lighting practitioners who've been using consoles 'in the field' for a long time (just in case you were wondering, this is my sixteenth year of earning a full-time living in the theatre industry :D). At the other end, you have the youngsters who are still at school, and are happy to post 'recommendations' for desks that they've only ever had their hands on at a trade show, or read about on the web. What I'm saying, I guess, is that when you get advice on this sort of thing from an open-access internet forum, you can never really be certain just how seriously you should be taking it .

[sirrus]

In an ideal world, I'd point you to a price for the upcoming Zero88 ORB... my vote would go to that...

 

... just browsing along the Zero88 website and the Leapfrog is looking good ... both excellent desks in my opinion ...

 

... I have nothing bad at all to say about Chamsys and MagicQ

 

When considering advice such as the above, you might also do well to consider something which I posted a few days ago :

One thing to be aware of when asking a question about lighting consoles on this forum - you'll get a very broad mix of people replying to your question. At one end of the scale, you'll have professional lighting practitioners who've been using consoles 'in the field' for a long time (just in case you were wondering, this is my sixteenth year of earning a full-time living in the theatre industry :D ). At the other end, you have the youngsters who are still at school, and are happy to post 'recommendations' for desks that they've only ever had their hands on at a trade show, or read about on the web. What I'm saying, I guess, is that when you get advice on this sort of thing from an open-access internet forum, you can never really be certain just how seriously you should be taking it .

 

 

Yes, except I have used both the LeapFrog and Chamsys desks sequentially in the past. But thats not the point, and I agree with you, It was just my input.

[gareth]

I have used both the LeapFrog and Chamsys desks sequentially in the past

In what context?

[sirrus]

I have used both the Leapfrog and Chamsys desks sequentially in the past

In what context?

 

Mostly, school related events... But also some private events (through the school / professionals met through the school hiring out its facilities). So pre-show setup (mostly in the OLE because of the cost of hireing the console e.t.c.), programming, operating e.t.c. of both desks

 

Mainly busking with the Chamsys MagicQ console at a rave & outdoor music events (mainly with a console but I have also used the laptop and wing approach and prefer the desk). And mainly theatre with the Leapfrog (with the odd gig and conference thrown in e.t.c.)

 

I also assist a proffessional lighting tech reguarly and his console of choice is the MagicQ

[david.elsbury]

By "not much useful content" I refer to the fact that you haven't actually used the desk, all you're doing is reading and quoting from the manual.

 

therefore you would have to use some of the 200 fixture spaces allocated for moving fixtures, but I have had to do this in the past with a JesterML48 and didn’t mind it at all,

This is a bodge, and a workaround, there are plenty of other consoles which are more suitable, simply because they don't require you to @rse around with using an intelligent fixture space for a conventional dimmer.