fly bars

[dooron]

I often work freelance in a local theatre and have told them on many occasion that the use of a clove hitch and two half hitches is not acceptable on a fly line when hanging a fly bar. does anyone know the official word on this. A professional company involved in flying actors (peter pan) hung their flying track on one of these tied on flying bars and the centre line came off during perfomance!!!!

[Just Some Bloke]

A properly tied clove hitch with 2 half hitches is the standard hanging for a hemp flying bar in my experience. The only way a line could have come off was if it was either incorrectly tied or too much weight had been hung from the bar.

 

I've no idea about any "laws", by which I suspect you mean "best practice" as laws don't lay down that sort of thing, just that it has to be "safe".

[pete LD]

I often work freelance in a local theatre and have told them on many occasion that the use of a clove hitch and two half hitches is not acceptable on a fly line when hanging a fly bar.

 

Ive worked in a hemp house for most of my life and that is the way its done there. Never once had a problem!. How do you do it?.

[Ynot]

I'll add my ten pen'orth there - either a clove plus 2 half hitches or a round turn & two halves.

 

We would usually tape off the flying end of the knot as well, but that's almost as much to do with neatness as it is safety for the knot.

 

A properly tied knot of either variety should be fine in my book.

[kitlane]

I often work freelance in a local theatre and have told them on many occasion that the use of a clove hitch and two half hitches is not acceptable on a fly line when hanging a fly bar.

 

Ive worked in a hemp house for most of my life and that is the way its done there. Never once had a problem!. How do you do it?.

 

The OP didn't specify that it was a hemp bar. The clove hitch method was once frequently used to attach bars hung on SWR in, for example, a counterweight system. That may be the case here. Some kind of hanging clamp or other fitting would be adviseable. A hanging clamp with a ring could be used with a hemp bar.

[Ynot]

The OP didn't specify that it was a hemp bar. The clove hitch method was once frequently used to attach bars hung on SWR in, for example, a counterweight system. That may be the case here. Some kind of hanging clamp or other fitting would be adviseable. A hanging clamp with a ring could be used with a hemp bar.

OK, the OP may not have said hemp, but I feel it's a logical assumption to make...

Only the OP can advise otherwise.

[pete LD]

The clove hitch method was once frequently used to attach bars hung on SWR in, for example, a counterweight system.

That is a fair point, I have seen counterweight bars hung using this method but there has always been something to stop the loose ends pulling through. a pair of dogs being one way.

I think the OP needs to let us know as it makes the answer very different!

[jonathanhill]

The Lifting Operations and Lifting Equipment Regulations cover all lifting gear and operations, but like a lot of govermental regulations they do not lay out specifics for what is 'legal' and 'illegal'.

 

As mentioned by others posting to this thread, more information is required from the OP. In terms of 'best practice', some form of rated termination, although preferably not dogs, is the best way forward with regard to steel wire rope. Hemp bars are traditionally tied on with a clove hitch and two half hitches which is absolutely fine as the breaking strain of this knot (unless it is tied with shoelace) is far above what a flyman can physically pull.

 

As for the arrangement that the OP mentions about a (people?) flying track hanging on a bar that a supension line came off, definately more information is required. For the record any time that I have either been involved in, worked with or seen people flying go in (admittedly in counterweight houses) then judicial use of ratchet straps and other rigging has always been employed on the track, bar and c/w cradle to ensure that it is never going to move. I trust that such provision was made?

 

edit: to make it make sense...swr addition

[Shez]

For the record any time that Ihave either been involved in, worked with or seen people flying go in (admittedly in counterweight houses) then judicial use of ratchet straps and other rigging has always been employed on the track, bar and c/w cradle to ensure that it is never going to move. I trust that such provision was made?

 

Indeed. The last personnel flying rig in a show I was working on was attached to a counterweight bar which was then VERY securely attached to the grid itself.

 

A clove & two half hitches is what I've always used on hemp bars. I'm not sure I'd be entirely happy with anyone flying people from a hemp bar alone; more details required of course though.

[paulears]

I've been involved in quite a few Foys installations as the person signed off on their paperwork, and when they install their kit they do not tie knots in any suspension equipment. The tracks are properly fixed to the venue bars, and inspection of the bolts on this is part of the daily/bi-weekly /weekly checks the authorised person has to do. The counterweight cradle is secured at operation height with straps, and the side to side movement at grid height is strapped off and checking these is also part of the testing you do.

 

The thought of a suspension rope falling off makes me wonder about how the job was done in total, not just the knot type. With people flying we're not just talking about a knot used for suspension with a static load, it gets pulled in all directions and any rope used that can stretch under tension seems rather alien?

[jonathanhill]

The thought of a suspension rope falling off makes me wonder about how the job was done in total, not just the knot type. With people flying we're not just talking about a knot used for suspension with a static load, it gets pulled in all directions and any rope used that can stretch under tension seems rather alien?

 

It makes me quite frightened. OP please post more information.

[GridGirl]

Like most others, I've usually used a clove hitch with two half-hitches to tie a hemp bar on. The other knot that I've seen in use is an Italian (or batten) hitch with two half-hitches, but I don't think this one is quite so common.

[rooftop]

We've just had our annual insurance inspection which covers all rigging and hoists on the stage.

 

Hemp lines tied off to barrels/tab tracks/etc with clove hitches & two half hitches all passed the inspection with flying colours as usual. Just an advisory note to re-tape the loose ends of the ropes and to "seal" the end of the tape with a single zip tie.

 

However, if we are talking about flying people then this is handed over to the experts. The most recent example was a flying trapeze for MTV's Super Sweet Sixteen. The specialised rigging company used anchor points on the grid and installed all of their own flying hardware to that. Not before supplying us with a file of risk assessments and other documentation of course :blink:

[dooron]

I often work freelance in a local theatre and have told them on many occasion that the use of a clove hitch and two half hitches is not acceptable on a fly line when hanging a fly bar.

 

Ive worked in a hemp house for most of my life and that is the way its done there. Never once had a problem!. How do you do it?.

 

 

I am not doubting he practice as I have worked in both hemp and counterwieght houses and done the same as all the oher posts have said. I wasn't working at the theatre at the time of the production, but I went to see it and there did seem to be a lot of bar movement .

Did the person rigging for the flying company sign it off or rely on the theatre to rig??? who knows