baddog Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Hi there. In a live gigging environment what considerations would you give to either micing a guitar amp to feed into the PA or feeding it via a line-out?I've always fed my amp signal to the PA via line-out, and wonder why people bother micing an amp? Am I missig something? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cedd Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Might have been better in sound perhaps? Personally, I often prefer the sound from a mic. That said, if I possibly can, I'll take one of each and mix them to get the sound I like. In smaller gigs this often isn't an option, but with the right gig and enough time, it can produce some quite nice results.A line output is not going to produce feedback, the sound is often cleaner, but I find the level is more changeable. Somehow a mic and speaker seem to smooth it all out. Remember also that it's not just about having a mic, it's where you place it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_gibbs Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Personally I always try to mic a guitar amp. People tend to mic guitar amps as a lot of the sound comes from the quality (or lack of it) of the speaker, I.e its ability to reproduce certain frequencies. Some more modern guitar amps with line-outs have circuitry to mimick the eq of a normal guitar speaker (normally not a huge amount of top end). You also add a bit of "air" to the signal due to the space between the speaker and the mic diaphram which many find appealing. The advantage of using a line out however is that you remove a mic from the stage and so the associated feed-back problems that come with it. Ulimately it comes down to the personal preference of the engineer and I have in some cases seen people both DI and mic a guitar to get the best of both worlds, this technique is very common when it comes to bass guitar as you get the character of the amp but also the full frequency response of the DI. Edit: cedd beat me to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkPAman Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I don't think I've ever had feedback problems from the mic on a guitar cab - they never need that much gain & are usually not near the monitors. Sometimes feedback from the guitar (usually acoustic or semi acoustic) through the amp, mic, & then monitors. As already said though, use a mic, because you want the sound of the speaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkBarl Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 If it is your own guitar amp and you are happy with the line out, go with it. In my experience a guitarist's sound is a combination of the guitar and processing or effects and the amp. Many guitarists will have spent years perfecting the sound coming out of the speaker on the amp. Normally a line out will take the signal before it comes out of the cone and thus will not be an accurate reproduction of the sound desired. Of course you can always screw up the eq and it will still sound like cr*p but the convention is to mic up the amp. If there is a problem with on stage volume you could always try to place the amp off stage somewhere and mic it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinE Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Believe me there are forums full of guitarists who will argue what is better..a subtle Celestion Blue Speaker made in India or the bright reedy nuances of an old Square Magnet Jensen that hasn't been 'run-in yet'. The speaker therefore makes a difference to the dedicated elec guitarist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trunker Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Personally I take a line and mic them. When recording I usually record 3 ways on guitar and bass and play with the phase switches to get the best sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.elsbury Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Normally I mic, with the exception being if the guitarist has a modelling amp. One guy I work with has a line6 modelling amp with XLR out, as the amp is simulating the sound of different amps anyway what comes out the speaker is much the same as what comes out the XLR. Just a little bit easier and cleaner than a mic. But as said above, in normal cases the tone of the speaker and cabinet is as much as, if not more of the sound, than the guitar itself. So micing is the best way. (incidently this is the conclusion the OP seems to have come to ;) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solstace Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 The simple way I explain this to my new engineers is: The "instrument" an electric guitarist plays is in fact the combination of guitar, the processing and the amplifier/speaker combo. Some of my sound-ops have a broadcast/electronic engineering background, and like to see it as a "creative" abuse of 50's analogue circuit design! Bass and acoustic guitars aside, I can't remember the last time I used the "Line" output of an electric guitar processor or amplifier for live sound - as a rule I either mic the amp or do nothing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Ulimately it comes down to the personal preference of the engineer Even though I write this as an engineer, I'm going to take slight issue with this statement. Really, it should come down to the personal preference of the musician involved with the engineer then using the best technique he can to give the musician the sound he wants. As several others have said, for many electric guitarists, the sound from the speaker--including things like distortion and even feedback--can be an integral part of the overall "music" being created. In this sort of case, then putting a mic on the cabinet it the only way to get the overall sound; the line out, even if it includes any electronic effects being added in the amp, wil still be a bit sterile and "too clean". In the case of the original poster, if he's happy with the results gained by using the line out then that's great. Many guitarists are happy to work this way and it's certainly a convenient and easy way to work. However, if a guitarist want's the "speaker sound" then it's my job as an engineer to get it for him the best way I can. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killyp Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 IMO it also depends on the context hugely and the kit available. If we're talking a jazz trio/quartet/quintet, and the guitarist turns up with a 50w Marshall stack, I'd take the line out any day. However if they turn up with a Fender Blues/<insert any other nice amplifier here>, I'd mic it without hesitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.elsbury Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 But who are you as an engineer to dictate to the guitarist what their sound will be? And what guitarist in their right mind would bring a Marshall stack unless it was appropriate? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killyp Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 True, and you need to judge it based on the guitarist's opinion too. The guitarists who bring the wrong kit for the gig usually don't seem to understand the difference between a Micd and DId amp either way. Those who do know the difference usually seem to bring the right kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Ross Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 And what guitarist in their right mind would bring a Marshall stack unless it was appropriate? ;)Nearly every single young punk/emo/screamo/what ever it is they are called now band seems to turn up with a full stack lately. Some are quite good once you educate them along the lines of “Would you rather have all your sound coming out of your small amp or would you rather have it coming out of my larger PA that has a better coverage of your audience?“ That seems to do the trick most of the time. Back on topic I would generally mic first but like to take a line out so I can see which fits best in the mix. Most of the time it’s a blend of the two. With bass guitars the roles are reversed and I take a DI first then mic. Being a bass player myself I prefer the DI to be taken out of my amp so I get some of the tone and not just the straight bass signal from the guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_gibbs Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Perhaps I should have put my comment about it being down to the engineer into more context. It was not meant as an "I'm the engineer and I'll do what I please!" In every situation the engineer has a duty and a responsibility to his/her client be it a live band, a conference or whatever to provide the service they require to the best of their ability. In all circumstances I have a conversation with the client as to what they're hoping to achieve from their event, in the live band context this means gathering as much information as possible as to the type of music and how the band like to be mixed, lots of vocals, very bottom heavy etc. I also tend to ask how important the guitarists find their amps to their sound for exactly the reasons being mentioned here. Some say their vital while others can't even tell me what make their amp is as they see it as a means to an end (I.e being able to be heard over the drummer at practices). It's then down to the engineer to fulfill those requests with the skills and equipment they have availible to them. Sorry if my original comment sounded "hollier than thou", it wasn't meant like that. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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