RoyS Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Hi All, I am putting together a shopping list for secondry school to upgrade sound and lights in 3 performance areas. These include the school hall and a drama studio. The maximum working height of the area mentioned is 6 meters. Re-gelling & focusing are the main tasks at height but not preclude lifting luminairs from the ground to the bars and down again. Some FOH fixtures are fixed to wall mounted out riggers with nuts+bolts. These very definitely require two hands… Complience with the HSE Working at Height regulations is a major requirement of the upgrade. I interpret that the regs exclude the use of Zarges type ladders as these require 3 points of contact. Scaffold towers take a while to rig (even longer if working alone) and storage is bulky. I am therefore thinking about spec’ing a small mobile hydraulic platform like a Genie GR20 www.genieindustries.com/ss-series/runabout.asp It’s a fine bit of kit but very expensive and possibly over specified for the job. Are there cheaper alternatives to the Genie? Can anyone please give me some guidance on this… Many thanks. Roy Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Honestly?Use some common sense in your interpretation of the 'regs' (if indeed you're reading actual regulations, not the local authority's interpretation of same).Ladders, when properly used and following sensible risk assessment by the user each time (again back to common sense there) are perfectly safe to use when rigging. Yes - there is a requirement for 3 points of contact when climbing/using ladders, but you have to be a realist. Judge for yourself when atop the rungs and you can quite safely use both hands (when needed) to rig. However, there are still a LOT of things that you can do single handed, so still keeping within the 'rules'. Personally I'd say a MEWP for a school is rather an over the top solution. Purely personal thoughts, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam2 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 A MEWP would certainly be useful, but as pointed out they are expensive and possibly OTT for a school. However purchase or lease of such could perhaps be justified by the school if it can be used for other purposes, not just theatre lighting.How high are the normal flourescent or other luminaires ? and how are the lamps changed ? would a MEWP allow the caretaker or whoever to do this work safer than at present.Does the school have any high level external lighting, signs, CCTV equipment etc. that could be better maintained by useing a MEWP?Are specialist contractors employed for minor repairs and maintenance at high level, and could this be done in house, thus saving money, if a MEWP was available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonkiDonki Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Personally, I would say that type of mewp is ideal for your situation; along with the approriate training of course. I'm not sure what cheaper alternatives may be out there, but that genie is a good starting point. Of course if this type of access proves to be too expensive then so be it, but if H&S is taken seriously then it should be considered.Even more so, seeing as it is a school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathanhill Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Have to agree with Ynot. A Genie is an extravagance for a school. A Zarges Skymaster, a line and a good pulley would be a more economical solution; with risk assessment and training it is a fast and safe means of access. Don't forget that Genies and the like are really heavy and there could be an issue with the point loading on the venue floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMac Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 The MEWP will require yearly maintainance and service a hidden cost in the ownership.(Have a look at the HSE Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regulations).PUWER Regards John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glyn Edwards Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Some things to consider if you do go down the MEWP route: Will the floor support the considerable weight loadings of even a small MEWP? (Even the GR20 you mention has a weight in excess of 1.1 tonnes) Do you have flat access to every where you want to go? With sufficent people you can carry a set of Zarges or even a tallescope up a flight of stairs if you need to, That's impossible with a genie. Related to the above, can the site manage with just one, or will you need one for each space? What about the maintenance staff who might also want to use it? As has already been mentioned, these items require regular inspection, clearly the more units you have the greater the cost of that periodic inspection. Just my initial thoughts Glyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyS Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 Thanks to all respondents thus far. I can see totally what Ynot and others are saying with regard to the over specification of a MEWP. But in today’s litigious culture sometimes common sense is not enough and due diligence and best possible practice is what’s required.The areas of use all have concrete floors so load bearing should not be an issue…Thanks again. Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyro_gearloose Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 The areas of use all have concrete floors so load bearing should not be an issue… Are you sure? The floor may be a block-and-beam construction which while it is made from concrete, it isn't as strong as a 'conventional' concrete floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleah Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 The areas of use all have concrete floors so load bearing should not be an issue… Are you sure? The floor may be a block-and-beam construction which while it is made from concrete, it isn't as strong as a 'conventional' concrete floor. I was just thinking that! A bouncy concreate floor can be quite disconcerting Even if the floor in the room is OK, you'll need to ensure access routes in and out are also capable of bearing the load, such as a corridor or ramp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 The other thing of course is that you CAN (with certain caveats) train students to safely use, climb and operate from ladders and scaff towers.You can NOT train them to operate MEWP and I would hazard that you'd struggle to get them insured for working from such a platform, even supervised... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonkiDonki Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 How about removing the need for any access equipment and have the entire floor level on a hydraulic lift like the Anugraha hotel in Surrey. (Now the Savill Court Hotel) Just take the whole room upto a safe-working height... Anyone remember that bit of madness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 My vote is also for a ladder. Unless the school caretaking staff just want the new toy, and are angling to get it because of you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonkiDonki Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 How about stilts? I'm fairly confident there's no H&S regulations against them yet. :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattwright15 Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Surley we are missing out the good old fashion Hover Boot when we are refering to schools access equipment?? Im sorry, but im no longer related to educational teaching practices, but 1 thing which hasnt changed in the last couple of years is Health and Saftey Common sesnse,- is what any good HSE official is looking for.Lleaning off a ladder with only 'Grade A Human Feet' as contact points... we've all been there... the reason we lived... was because, in our minds we have done a realistic risk assement! (I alwats stop and think.... How can we achieve this task before comencing it; it becomes second nature before u realise it and sometimes you may even creatre a basis for new procedures or reveiw of old ones whilst thinking of new ways of overcoming problems Example- We decided that the task, our original specification required from us, needed some slight ajustments from our regular risk assement-( but to stop all work on the basis of this was is inpractical.) So we decided to creat a working fix. For E.G. A local observation of the situation & task in hand, deemed that if we used both hands to Rig a light from the required access ladder for a brife moment in time, the risk to the person involved in working at height and thous affected benieth them would fairly high and may result in serious ingury. However if u hoisteded the lamp to the rigging positon with a rope or mototr, then the person on the ladder may rig the lamp in a much more safer way then before, now not having to let go of his 3points be so minimal, justification of a very expenisve MEWP would be a a miss use of resoucres, After all, the cost even a access platform rather then ladder... for Rules occasional use could supply the venue, or school with more urgently requied equpiment.... Fire Detection system (or Knife detection equpiment in these days) any high priority requirement a school needs to protect its staff, students and members of public! I hoe tis makes sese...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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