Young Johnstone Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Is it me or is anybody else starting to get fed up of posts about moving lights! There seams to be alot of people asking about buying 'cheap' fixtures for their school. Most are asking for advice on lights such as iMove's etc... because they don't have a buget to buy mac 250's or similar. IMO alot of people want them to play with and make pritty paterns and are making an excuse to buy some when they may be better buying a selection or Pars or fresnels, lights you can't really go wrong with! I started lighting in my last year at school and we had a good selection of lighting but no intelegent fixtures in sight. we created some stunning designs for our musical and talentshows using what we had! the only thing we hired in for the musical was 6 colour scrollers which we lit 4 foot wide drapes with that we layered from front to the back of the stage. My first encounter with moving lights was at college and I soon found out that they can really enhance a performance, but also can ruin it. It seams with younger people that they have to be used just because they are there! One of the best ways to learn is by starting small and building up experience. Then maybe you can venture into the world of movers What are other peoples opinions on this subject? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDP Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I must admit I get increasingly annoyed with it all. There either seems to be questions either asking about $5 Moving Lights, LED Pars, or how can I control my LED Pars and $5 moving lights for $50. I remember the days all the new people wanted to know what all the cable was for, those were in the days of VL5 and 6 rigs, and more Pars on one tour that most rental companies own these days.... oh that was the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali2580 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I'm only fifteen but I do a lot of lighting and sound for local groups and stuff and I am the main lighting & sound technician for Abbey Theatre in Arbroath so I thought I would give my opinion.... I thought a lot of people had been leaving posts about moving lights recently too. I have never once used moving lights in any of my designs/rigs. Firstly because we might not have the right equipment for it (Dimmers, Desks etc.) And secondly because when I have been working with other local amateur technician's, they have said they don't use them because they feel it's too much hassel to bother when they could easily create what they want with conventional fixtures. The only time I have been involved in a production with moving lights was in the Webster Theatre in Arbroath when AMYT done 'We Will Rock You' therefore it was suited to have moving lights. For the work I do, I never bother to hire or buy moving lights because it is too much hassle for me and other technician's feel the same. I agree with your rant though but personally, I don't use them and don't intend on using them anytime soon.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Beech Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Is it me or is anybody else starting to get fed up of posts moaning abou........oh wait.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 It's not just now, but ALL THE TIME!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.elsbury Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Trust me, after a while you get so fed up with posts by persons under 16-ish, especially those asking for advice on moving heads, you just ignore them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I was at a school this week where they'd spent lots of dosh on moving lights. The first day they were up and running, the head stood on their stage and tried to speak to the assembled kids and staff in some pretty lighting. His first words were "Do these things always make that noise? Ok, turn them off, I can't hear myself think!" The worst thing in the world was the invention of cheap moving lights, and I can remember this topic running ever since that date, over and over again. Funny how schools never seem to want to buy cheap digital sound desks - and the only one that was cheap enough to buy got discontinued with no replacement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmills Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I was at a school this week where they'd spent lots of dosh on moving lights. The first day they were up and running, the head stood on their stage and tried to speak to the assembled kids and staff in some pretty lighting. His first words were "Do these things always make that noise? Ok, turn them off, I can't hear myself think!" Sounds very familiar!What I have never understood is why there always seems to be money for toys but never for infrastructure. Cheap mover = trashed after a year at most.Extra 6 pack of dimmers, or conventional lanterns = still going 10 years later. Extra fixed lighting bar somewhere useful = still there when they pull the place down. Now, if you have every LX position you could want and have a huge number of conventional lanterns and scrollers and all the power and control needed (and have a full time technician (Not a student, one who will still be there in a few years)), then maybe, just maybe, but get good ones not cheap crap, otherwise all the above stuff is just far more important. Oh make sure you have a sound system that is fit for purpose first as well, also weights, braces and the like. Most (but not all) schools, and many colleges are so short on the basics for putting on a production that buying movers is just silly. Education really is its own little world. I have just been done this one, buying some £40K worth of lantern stock for a community arts centre, not a mover in sight, just a whole pile of conventional stuff, cables and accessories. The conventional stock will with minimal maintenance still be going strong 20 years from now, a mover will be horribly out of date in 5 years and will have been a complete PITA to maintain in the meantime. My one semi regret is that I couldn't get scrollers and a couple of limes in the same order, but again there were more important things. I am pretty sure that I will get it in the neck for not specifying movers from at least a subset of the user community. Regards, Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Beech Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Annoying to say the least, I agree they are not necessary in most applications, the costs outweigh the benefits and in the early stages of a students design career it's a bit of a cheating method. Give em sod all gear and they'll make the best out of a bad job, give em everything and they have it easy and don't learn. However, let's look at it from my business POV. Schools with Movers don't bother me so much anymore. They have spent ever penny they have on them so they hire a PA from me because they can't afford to buy one, or the one they have is cheap and doesn't work as it should / as they need it to for that production. It might be fine for assemblies. Schools that don't have movers however annoy me, they want a big pa for no money as they are spending sometimes (no lie) 90% of the production budget on lighting leaving 10% for sound. They'll hire a smaller system and thrash the hell out of it. No good for me at all. I've had requests for 4 stacks of Aspect wide, 12 tfm450's with amps a pair of M7's, around 40 mics / DIs playback, stands, all the cabling etc, for a week and a half and asked if thy can do it for £200 because that's all they have left as they've spent £1800 on silly moving lights. Well, you can hire that gear without problem, but not for that price. In the end they get a small 12 channel desk pair of subs and tops, couple of monitors, etc, basic system. Still very cheap price, and they complain as its not enough in the 1400 capacity sports hall. Lampy scum :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardtank Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I work mainly in the club 'scene' and I know that the MAC250s are amazingly loud! Obviously this doesn't matter all that much when the DJ is in, but whilst I'm programming a light show you can head each MAC quite easily from the LX position at the back of the room! I can only imagine how ill-suited this must be in a theatre type setup.I can see why the younger amongst us would want to 'play' with moving heads, although I'm sure the novelty of doing so quickly wears off. As has been said previously, there's absolutely nothing wrong with a show that's lit with generics. We're currently running a 'battle of the bands' and all I'm using during this time are our PAR cans. Maybe in the finals the MACs will get to come out. I can't believe that these courses are being run in schools by people that don't know what they're doing! Going on what Rob has said in the previous post; Are the children left to run this thing by them selves?! Who would honestly believe they would be able to get such a sound setup for £200 for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn@KC Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 As a technician that works in a school I have to agree with the norm that cheep movers in schools (or anywhere else) are a bad idea.The only thing that moves in our theatre are follow-spots which I use loads since I have a never ending supply of free labour. Plus follow-spotting is a great way to learn how lighting works.The problem I have is that DMX is actually quite complicated. Getting your head around addressing, fixture patching and all of that is pretty tricky especially if you don’t have a clue about conventional lights. The only way to learn / teach is to go right back to basics. Start with a 12 channel 2 preset lighting desk with a couple of lights and work your way up from there. How else will they learn?The most complicated stuff we have here is a load of dirt cheep LED Pars and if our students can get to grips with that then they shouldn’t freak out when they come across movers. I can see why other schools do buy cheep moving lights. At the moment I am having to spend a lot of time and money fixing a set of scrollers that a particularly annoying pupil melted. If they had done that with a Mac I would go mental and it would cost a fortune especially if they didn’t have a professional onsite to fix it. So I can see why schools are willing to cut corners with semi disposable kit. Finally I think a lot of the blame can be put on cheep and cheerful lighting and sound companies that prey on schools with cash to spend and no idea what they are buying. It’s pretty easy to rip a school off by marking up cheep kit. I get so much junk mail from companies like School lighting R US or the Educational Light and Sound shop that charge a fortune for rubbish but I can see if you don’t know what you’re doing, it looks pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleah Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 The worst thing in the world was the invention of cheap moving lights, and I can remember this topic running ever since that date, over and over again. Funny how schools never seem to want to buy cheap digital sound desks - and the only one that was cheap enough to buy got discontinued with no replacement Don't agree that they are the worst thing ever! :huh: However, I work in a school, and I would love a cheap digital sound desk!! :D I agree with pretty well all of the above. Movers are pointless uless you have lots of disposable cash and a dedicated technician who can program and make the most out of them. Now I own two of the cheapest movers around, the Stairville MH250S, 250w halogen jobbies from Thomann. I bought them for a couple of reasons:Firstly I had no experience of heads, only scans so wanted to see what the fuss was about - education if you like ;) I wanted something else to disco with....And lastly (or mainly? :P ) toys..... B-) :D They have adequatley fulfilled those requirements ;) I decided to use them on one of our Junior productions a year ago (Joseph) and quite frankly they were a waste of my energy putting them in the grid. :huh: Apart from them being blown away by the generics, even with dim lighting the effect was.. well.. wasn't. And I couln't be a$$ed sitting there for hours making them do something remotely exciting. The "rock'n'roll" effect I created with 24 PAR cans was a zillion times more effective! I do have a "Holly Grail" of mover I'd like to have in our theatre..sorry hall, and that's the (whatever the modern equiv is now) Martin PAL. Profile Automated Luminaire.For the uninitiated it is essentially a moveable generic profile with remote zoom and focus, with the ability to colour change IIRC.Now a grid full of those would be nice! B-) No more up and down the ladder / scaf to focus :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Jules Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 On a similar note, how annoying has it become to have posts that start with "I'm the chief LX/Technical Director of my school" only to find out that they're about 15? When I still toured, I'd occasionally hit a well equipped semi-pro theatre in a school, having sent my tech rider weeks in advance, only to be met by some kid who was on a free period and had rigged my plan left to right or, (I kid you not), in one fabulous instance back to front (Six profiles in L152 and 201 on the cyc bar and 3 2K fresnels in L120 FOH!) What is it with schools giving such autonomy to kids? And how are they now being given free rein to buy rubbish kit. I'm pretty sure their science labs aren't run by pupils eager to buy a £250 particle accelerator rather than some more test tubes. When I was a kid the drama teacher knew how everything worked and showed us how to get the best out of what little we had. You stayed after school building flats and learning how to use a French (or English) brace and rostra. You didn't dare touch anything unless you were properly trained. It seems now that the teachers haven't got a clue how anything works and are bowing to pressure to try and recreate X-Factor instead of putting on a nice play set in a drawing room, WITH A SET!!! You only have to look at some of the rubbish that gets posted on the Show Your School Production thread to see how little clue a lot of these kids have - It's all badly focused primaries and haze with hardly a decent General Cover to be seen. It's no wonder they can't get it right if they haven't learnt how to do the simpler stuff - and who's fault is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.elsbury Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 And lastly (or mainly? ) toys.....Oh for crying out loud... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkPAman Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 If you want toys get a couple of these - much more fun than a light & an empty theatre is a great place to use them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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