vibedisco Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Ive just recently bought 3 robe 160 xt moving heads and im new to movers but trying fast to learn about how they work. They are littered with problems. One lamp gets hotter than the rest and then cuts out until cooled enough to use again. The next light has a dicky shutter when hot and the third had a burning smell from the shutter motor which has now ceased but does not work, the colour wheel does not align properly and niether does the gobo wheel after a minute or so. I have had a good read through the forum and taken peoples advice so ive checked the magnets and sensors, oiled the motors and im still stuck with one sticky shutter on one and another head with stiff gobo wheel, colour wheel and shutter. Im guessing this means new stepper motors to sort unless anyone has any further ideas before I call robe for a quote? many thanks for your advice. im desperate to try them out on my next mobile gig and I dont want to be ripped off by my local dealer who is pretty pricey. im even contemplating if it might be cheaper to sell on ebay and cut my losses before purchasing new but it would all be on credit :) ALEX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger_Mushroom Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 I've had the misfortune of sorting out these fixtures too. In all honesty, I'd be inclined to sell them and get something else - it will cost you less money in the long run as they will just keep failing on you if they have been mistreated for years. That's the problem with budget lights, they tend to have been used by venues that don't look after equipment. If you do get somebody competent to fix them, it will cost you a fair amount. If you leave your location I might know somebody in your area that could sort them if you wanted. Alternatively, if you do want to proceed down the route of self-repair, check out the training courses on the Martin website for the service and repair of intelligent fixtures - very good and you will learn a lot. Hope this helps in some way, Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinE Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 I know it doesnt seem this way but the 150 and 160XT are pretty reliable, light, smooth and silent. First, dont actually oil the stepper motors, they'll just gum up with dust and the oil will be reduced to a tar-like mess. If they're sticky, you can dismantle them and clean the gunk off the rotors taking care with metal filings that can stick to the magnets. The clearance gap between rotor and stator is very small indeed and a single iron filing can jam it. Most of these problems are caused by poor cooling due to poor maintenance and cleaning, causing overheating and resultant motor damage. The fans need to be working properly and efficiently, they run all the time on these. If they're second hand then make sure the fans havent been replaced by an inferior one, they must be the EXACT type or better as a high through-flow of air is the only way they'll not trip out on thermal. The incorrect fan can mean the difference between them running for 3 hours and tripping, or running all night perfectly. They trip at about 70deg, a normal unit with original Sunon fan runs at about 58 and a better Papst fan can get them down to 50 deg (Ive experimented with my temp probe and they do sail close to the wind). The shutter motor is nearest the lamp so gets most of the heat and suffers the soonest. If the other motors eg gobo/colour are inaccurate although they 'reset' ok, then they may be stiff and missing steps, they should be very light to the touch in this model and easily spin with the tip of your finger. Good luck!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChazHS Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Also sounds like you have a cycling lamp, this would need to be replaced. As the lamp reaches the end of its life, the voltage required to keep it ignited becomes much higher as it heats up, eventually the ballast can't provide enough voltage and the lamp will shut down. When its cooled enough, the ballast will be able to re-ignite it and the whole process starts again! Thats why its going on/off probably. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vibedisco Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 Thanks so much for your input on these issues. whilst awaiting for them to arrive I had never envisaged ever taking the tops off so when things went wrong I was utterly dispondant. Thanks to the advice on this forum though I feel like im learning slowly how all this works (all be it kicking and screaming) couple more questions. Is it ever advisable to put oil in the oposite end of a motor to help it spin or not? How easy is it to replace the motors ones self? I think I can gain easy access to the shutter ones but the gobo motor is totally central and looks like it will require a complete rebuild. also the colour wheel on one unit defaults one step out of alignment on reset every time and ive tried using the units manual aligner still to no avail. Ive already cleaned the magnets and sensors and I wonder how else I can nudge the wheel round and keep it where it should be. (this could possibly be because of the stiff motor?) Finally what is a general price of a stepper motor. Im anxious to way up costs so my options are more clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChazHS Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Steppers arnt over expensive, about £25 a motor for the ones in the 160XT I believe. I wouldn't put oil anywhere near the unit if I were you, it won't really help the motors and you will just end up dirtying the optics. As for the colour wheel it may be "out of step" and the wheel is attatched mid-step. Try moving the wheel around on the spindle by undoing the allum bolts holding it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vibedisco Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 Thanks for the advice. I have added a replacement fan to the list as this seems to be the bulb problem. As for removing the shutter motor it looks fairly easy but there are two screws in difficult places. Is it standard to tear the whole thing apart or is it just a case of using a tiny right angle screwdriver? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChazHS Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Thanks for the advice. I have added a replacement fan to the list as this seems to be the bulb problem. As for removing the shutter motor it looks fairly easy but there are two screws in difficult places. Is it standard to tear the whole thing apart or is it just a case of using a tiny right angle screwdriver? Usually best to take it all to bits, but remember what goes where! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinE Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Tear it apart! No seriously you'll find it eventually comes apart in modules. Ok..they aint no Martin MAC for accesibility, you'll need patience. Clearances are everything, mark or draw diagrams, remember..everything must be VERY free to turn. The motors contain tiny ball races and oiling them does NOT work and shouldnt be attempted....they get so hot anyway that the oil will just run out. The races do fail sometimes and are easily replaced with mini-pullers, but usually as I said before its the rotor-stator gap that gets fouled by debris so the motors will have to come apart. Cleaning them is easy and cheaper than replacement. The lamps on these tend to last forever, (CDM150SA/T) unless you try to strike them hot in which case they sometimes go pop. http://www.djpro.ru/modules/shop/photogallery/robe_spot_160_xt.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vibedisco Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 OOOH! I so didnt want to hear you say that. I really didnt want to spend a whole day doing this. well I guess the sooner I learn the better. incidentally I have just swapped the bulb that was overheating to another unit (from cold) and it immediatly went pop so im scouting for best prices on replacement bulbs now too :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger_Mushroom Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I am sorry to repeat myself but I really do think you should reconsider keeping these fixtures. They have clearly been mistreated and would take an expert a long time to fix (and even then it may be a couple of attempts to be running perfectly again). I just think that the last thing you want to be doing is spending a week taking them all apart, buying new parts, waiting for parts to arrive and generally working on a trial by error basis. I'd also be a little more cautious about taking the things appart if you are not familiar with them too as if you can't put it back together, it will be worth nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamkaktus Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Hello, I'm new here, but I would tell You that robe noving heads have incorrectlyt designed cooling system. It is main problem in exploatation of this devices. Firstly main Fan gets blocked, then shutter/dimmer, next gobos, colors etc. Also lamp is always shutting down to loose some heat. In critical situation its possible to melt down plastoc chassis of head and totally damage step motors.Few days ago I've heard about one service(in Poland) which has designed WORKING method to upgrade cooling system-my friend use spot 160XT in 6 month with changes made by them and there's no malfunction. They keep it ina secret, and I havent found what they did to this heads, but it works and I want to get to know what they did. Have anybody any suggestion what can we do to make cooling system in Robe more efficient? Problem is also known in scanners from Robe's DJ -series.I will apriciate any suggestions. Good luck in repairs, PS yopu can search for new BBbearings for step motors and use better fans from sunon(BB-bearing, not classic) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard CSL Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 After reading all the above , I agree Sunon fans are better than cheap alternatives, as for stepper motors, I have found that a really useful tool for reconditioning these is a dremmel (or similar) with a sanding drum initially for cleaning the embedded black magnetic tram line deposits, then maticulously cleaning with a toothbrush to ensure no debris. I also sometimes use the circular wire brush for cleaning the rotors. Also endenatured alcahol / thinners / meths are all suitable for soaking and cleaning the ball race bearings, as immidiately after appliying the above the bearings tend to spin freely. I then use a small amount of penetrating oil such as WD 40 fo prelonged protection. I find this saves the motor for another 6-12 months. After two or three times however the magnetism of the rotor fails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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