BleedingEdgeProductions Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Hi guys, Using a generic "acting area" method, is it preferred to put your front area washes (not used for illumination, but atmosphere) at 45 degrees left and right, as well as your spots (which *are* used for illumination), or would it be acceptable to have them straight on with the acting areas? Thanks, Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genus Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 It's an interesting question however there's one crucial point. There's no such thing as the 'right' way to achieve any lighting design. It's all about finding a look that's good for you. However, I personally try and have my front light illumination for any acting area to be coming from two sources left and right, at about 45 degrees on both the left/right and up/down access. However it's quite unlikely that you will ever be able to produce the "perfect" angles what with the constraints apparent in terms of availability of lighting positions. The great thing about lanterns used for atmosphere is that you have a lot of flexibility and they don't have to be from the front, or from any specific angle (whatever works is good). If you can't experiment (we've all been in situations where there simply isn't the time to rig a lamp, play with it and see if it works) there are some good books on the subject that, whilst never being able to give you the answers, may be able to give you ideas. There's a book by Richard Pilbrow on Lighting design which is good. However the usual caveat applies that there is no substitute for having a go and seeing what works for you, the director and the piece, be it concert, drama, rock & roll. That's the great thing about lighting DESIGN, it's a creative process and you should always try and think about problems creatively without paying too much heed to the "conventional" techniques (thought it's worth noting that they're conventional for a reason). If every designer did this we'd be painting by numbers rather than creating a good, creative, atmospheric and functional lighting design. HTH Genus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 People do seem to spend large amounts of time trying to get the mystical 45 degrees, but the practicalities of hanging kit next to each other to allow simple changes of colour means that it's usually 45 degrees plus/minus a bit. Using washlights does mean that you can do the colour changes without changing the origin of the light, but the usefulness of using washlights like this is that you can do subtle changes of beam angle to bring light up/down/left/right and even toe in or out to change the effective shape of the 'puddle'. Again this changes the actual beam angle. The benefits (to me) far outweigh the idea of sticking to this mythical figure, which in my experience is always something to aim for but for practical reasons, rarely get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Some Bloke Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Hi guys, Using a generic "acting area" method, is it preferred to put your front area washes (not used for illumination, but atmosphere) at 45 degrees left and right, as well as your spots (which *are* used for illumination), or would it be acceptable to have them straight on with the acting areas? Thanks, Martin I don't think you've quite understood what the 45 deg thing is about. There are 2 types of lighting, as you mention, those that light faces which normally come from the front and look nice if they come from 45 deg each side with a contrast in intensity or colour, and those that light the stage/set and just provide atmosphere. These latter types of lighting can come from anywhere you like - side light, top light, backlight, footlight or frontlight. Try all of them and see what works best and why, then remember that for next time! The 45 deg thing is all about lighting faces. Atmosphere can come from wherever is the most atmospheric! :** laughs out loud **: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedingEdgeProductions Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Thanks for the replies everyone. Just Some Bloke - yeah I was a little confused over the types of lighting. I have been reading Pilbrows book (2008 ed) and have found it absolutely fascinating. However, I do feel he concentrates a lot (perhaps understandably, given that he likes to concentrate on illuminating the actors rather than the areas) on acting area illumination, and not so much on scenery/washes. Genus - this is the same concert I am on about in the other thread (as I'm sure you realised!). There is zero time to experiment and try things out :** laughs out loud **: . I think I'm going for front and rear wash lighting (as well as 3 spots on each mic position - L / C / R). The front will be fixed CMY, the rear will be movers (Robe washes). Funnily enough, I was watching the DVD of the 10th Anniversary Les Mis concert last night. Previously I thought it looked fantastic (when I was much younger and watching it in my Les Mis obsession phase), but having not seen it for a few years, I noticed that the lighting is pretty basic, and in fact does not illuminate the actors very much at all! Funny how your opinions change over time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 That was a trend that seemed to creep in once the kit was available to let you do it! The basic guidelines seemed to then morph into don't light scenery unless you have to. In the 'old days' dimmer channels even in the big venues were limited, so lots of area lighting just wasn't possible, so you washed the entire stage, then used your rare dimmer channels for specials - which could often be the kind of areas we now use as normal. Once we went up to 40 or even 60 dimmers the need to wash kind of ran out. My first venue went from 8 to 12 channels of resistance dimmer, then 18 of 2 preset and what a change it was. Moving to one or two spots per acting area for many of my designs - About this time Pilbrow wrote the first versions of the book and in those early ones, many photos that were then 'wow!' are now common, technique wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Some Bloke Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 The front will be fixed CMY,Are you talking about colour mixing, or 3 lanterns with a different gel in each? If it's the latter bear in mind that the transmission figures for these are: cyan 16.5%, magenta 11%, yellow 80%. This will make the yellow more than 7 times brighter than the magenta. Last time I used cmy washes in gel, I had 1K cyan and magentas and 500w yellows and the yellows still dominated constantly!If you're using dichroics then ignore the above! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedingEdgeProductions Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Are you talking about colour mixing, or 3 lanterns with a different gel in each? They will be CMY mixers - I'm thinking the Robe ColorMix 575s for the front washes (matched with the ColorWash 575E AT Zooms behind for the movers) and ColorMix 240 ATs over the band - that is just for a gentle wash over them). Although it is a bit more expensive using automated lights for the majority of the fixtures, given that we will be getting in at 8am, have to tech/dress at 3, and then perform at 7:30, being able to focus remotely and get things done quickly will be worth the extra cost! The profiles (front centre, left and right at or about 45 degrees) will be conventional Source 4s. And various moving spots behind for rear illumination as required per number. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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