BleedingEdgeProductions Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Hi guys, I am planning a basic LX rig for a one night charity concert. For the main stage washes, I am planning on using 5 areas on LX1, and 4 on LX3. As this is one night, would it be (generally, I know every case is different) more cost effective to have a single CMY wash for each of these areas (9 in total) or 2 to 3 PARS with scrollers on each position? Thanks, Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Remo Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Single CMY wash on each position or 3 par cans and scrollers to each position? Well the single cmy option will only give you one beam angle to each position, where as the 3 par cans could do 2 at 45deg and back light to each area. I'd pick the pars and scrollers if suitable mains for the dimmers involved and good gel strings. If pars are on individual dimmers you will have more flexability to do back / front light depth changes. In terms of cost effectiveness you mileage will vary depending on what your supplier will charge, what is your total budget? Are the cmy washes movers? What type of gig is it? You need to design what you want to do then spec the kit to your budget. More pars with fixed colour might be cheaper depending on your supplier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedingEdgeProductions Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 Thanks for the reply James. The gig is a charity "songs from the shows" type revue concert. There are 5 fixed mic positions along the front of the pros. They are the only "acting" areas. The second line of washes is to provide general coverage over the orchestra - more for "ambience" than visibility. I already plan to have the sides covered with ladders in the DSL and DSR wings - these will be PARS with Red, Blue, and a scroller on each. This should provide ample side lighting. The frontline at least will not need to be movers, only fixed downlights. The second line if they are movers could do any necessary back washing. I plan on using 4 Mac 500 profiles to do hard edge back lighting when required (they are the 4 "everyman" fixtures which will do anything required). So generally, I am asking about downlighting only, so a single beam angle is not a problem. I have 2 universes of DMX to play with, which should be plenty for this gig. (I really should state at this point that I am NOT an LD - I am a musician who is just getting into it... so if my comments sound dumb, then they probably are!) Cheers, Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genus Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Down lighting is interesting however the shadows produced don't give a 'natural' look (assuming, by downlight, you mean a lamp directly above the mic position pointing straight down). I would suggest that you have front and back light light to consolidate your side lights. Downlighting could be achieved by profile spots directly above, at an appropriate beam angle to give you the beam size you need (can't help you with what beam angle, as I don't know the throw - the distance the lamp is away from the area you want lighting. For downlight though it's just the height of the rig). If you've got colour elsewhere it might be effective to use spots in open white. HTHGenus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedingEdgeProductions Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 Thanks Genus. That's an interesting new idea (for me). To be honest, the rig I am planning is a completely bas***dised version of the rig on a (pretty major) national tour that I have been doing some technician music work on... In general, I was planning on using profiles high left and right (ladders in the auditorium) as well as the "everyman" profile movers from behind for the main mic position lighting (generally white - possibly opposite warm and cool whites) and then use the washes from above and the ladders in the wings to provide the colouring for the scene. Also, for the centre mic area, I was going to use 2 high side profiles (rig height, 60 degrees from the horizontal) to provide additional flexibility for the major solos. So, and again generally speaking, would you suggest my colour washes come from the front and back as well? Despite the warm/cool profiles on the mic positions? [The rig height is 7.5m] Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genus Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Boring though it may sound, just a bit of front light from a 45 degree angle will, IMHO, be useful and help cover the "basic illumination" side of lighting design. Bearing in mind it's a charity concert, I'm assuming you'll be busking it, therefore as you says you're not a lighting designer I'd personally make sure that I knew the desk inside out and what I'm trying to achieve. If you can, getting hold of the set list would be very handy, as you'd know which songs are luvvie and which are darker/colder. You're rig seems to me to have the flexibility to deal with whatever gets thrown at it. If you've got the resources to put colour washes in front as well as behind, and know the desk, I'd certainly suggest doing that. It might be worth remembering that, as a charity concert, it's not all about the lighting and that the first thing anyone will notice will be if you haven't got them lit, even if you have a beautiful, emotional state up, it's failed if the punters can't see the singers properly - hence my 45 degree suggestion. Genus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Remo Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 If the mic positions are fixed for soloists and the venue isn't too wide I'd not even bother with going 45deg, just 5 profiles, one for each area coming straight off your first advance bar. A bit of a rock n roll style approach for your keys, certainly with that amount of side and backlight you should be concentrating on hilight the act so they are visible, which as others have said should be your primary concern. A cmy unit would give you plenty of colour options but if a discharge source will suffer from a high colour temp which can look too clinical for skin tones. Wack scrollers on them by all means, but as you filter out parts of the colour spectrum you will lose intensity. Scrolls with cto & ctb would be what I would look for to tint the keys rather than saturated colours. If you already have profiles avalible then maybe look at using the budget for floor birdies to avoid shadow. Now where can you get scrollers for birdies.....? But I digress... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokm Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 maybe look at using the budget for floor birdies to avoid shadow. Now where can you get scrollers for birdies.....? But I digress...I'm sure AC'll sell you a plate to mount a CQ1-D on a Birdie.. or in that instance, would it you be mounting the birdie on the scroller :). Anyways! While birdies look nice and tidy, being rather low profile. I'd say your best bets to just use a pair of floor cans, maybe chrome? Looks much more RnR for a start (If that's the feel your going for that is), they're obviously going to be much brighter and are also a bit less liable to get trashed/stepped on than a tiny birdie. Course as we all know floor cans can certainly get a beating sometimes, but the difference is, they're able to take it, as opposed to a birdie you can crush with barely a touch of the foot. Just my thoughts on the subject. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedingEdgeProductions Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 I'm just redoing the draft plan at the mo, but re the 45s / advance bars. Looking at the plan of the theatre, there are no FOH full width bars - it's ladders at the side of the auditorium, so it would be 2 profiles on each mic position (yes they are fixed) - warm and cool whites - slightly less that 45 degrees. The follow spots would be used as well. The theatre has quite a few profiles in house, so that should be ok. The basic plan I have now, is: LX 1 [Overhead Mic Positions]:- 6 washes straight down (between each mic position): CMY or scrollers to be decided.- Ladders SL and SR with the mic positions. On each, 2x Red PAR, 2x Blue PAR, 2x PAR scrollers (ambers / greens / pinks for some numbers). LX 2 [Overhead MD, Behind Mic Positions, In Front of Band]:- 5 washes 2m directly behind the mic positions: again, CMY yet to be decided.- PAR band front washes (scroller, not CMY). LX 3 [Overhead Band]:- 4 lots of 2x PARS (scrollers) directly overhead the band.- Floods (scrollers) for choir front wash.- Projector onto Cyc.- Ladders SL/SR as above. LX 4 [Overhead Choir]:- 3x PAR battens (scrollers) - allows the "Les Mis" Red/White/Blue in One Day More :)- Ladders SL/SR as above. LX 5 [behind Choir, in Front of Cyc]:- a number of 4-circuit battens (dark blue / light blue / red / green) onto the cyc. Matched along the floor directly below by more of the same. The description above excludes profile spots onto the acting area / MD (me) / band soloists etc, and any specials / breakup gobos etc. The profiles onto each mic position are - left and right auditorium ladders (warm/cool white). There are also 2 movers on each LX bar (for effects and also any back profile lighting). I'm also looking at front washes - probably along the circle. Sorry! Long post... But that's the general idea!! A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on. Looks much more RnR for a start (If that's the feel your going for that is) We go from smoochy musical theatre ballads to R&R (Song of the King from Joseph etc...) Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJones Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 For A nicer tidier rig, I would suggest doubling up on the scrollers so that you can have an A set and a B set. Whilst the A set is giving you your colour wash for a song or look, the B set can be prefading into the next colour ready for the next look. It helps get rid of all those nasty live moves. Good luck! AndyJones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedingEdgeProductions Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 Thanks Andy. Yeah - if I don't go for CMY fixtures then I will have to double up on the overhead washes. I won't bother with the choir battens or floods though - they can be faded up / down as required between songs. They just need to be visible... Doubling up would also help with chases in the R&R... M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genus Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Sounds good, any chance we could see the plan, or know the venue? Purely out of curiosity. With that many scrollers I hope you've got a good programmer! All the best with it. Genus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedingEdgeProductions Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 Cheers Genus. I'm vectorwork-ing the plan at the moment. Venue is TBC - it's one of two options (both a very similar size with very similar layouts, run by the same company!). Should have a contract signed by the end of the week, so will post it then! A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on. Just a quick and general question. Should 5 wash positions be enough to provide general wash illumination overhead for an area 8x3m from a height of 7m? It's just for band illumination. Doesn't have to be bright, just even coverage... M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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