choosing desk channels

[crox]

I did a bit of a search but couldn't find anything so here goes ...

 

what is the general practice for choosing what channel for what use?

 

we are getting a gl2800-32 and will have the following:

 

5 vox channels

7 drum channels

1 guitar

1 keys (could run stereo)

1 bass

3 wireless mics

2 cd channels

2 media channels

 

where would you put what?

 

over to the great minds of BR!

[fatfrog]

This is what I would do, However it´s totally up to you...

 

1 - Kick Drum

2 - Floor Tom

3 - Rack Tom 1

4 - Rack Tom 2

5 - Snare

6 - Over Head 1

7 - Over head 2

8 - Guitar

9 - Bass

10 - Keyboard L

11 - Keyboard R

 

 

17 - Vox 1

18 - Vox 2

19 - Vox 3

20 - Vox 4

21 - Vox 5

22 - Wireless 1

23 - Wireless 2

24 - Wireless 3

29 - CD Left

30 - CD Right

31 - Media Left

32 - Media Right

 

Hope it helps a little

Alan

[iamchristuffin]

It's really entirely up to you. Drums are usually put at the start of the desk, though, something to do with when tape was used to record in studios. I know you said 7 drum channels, but if possible I would go for 8 instead, to give the Hi-Hat it's own channel.

 

For me it would be the following:

 

1-Kick

2-Snare

3-Hi Hat

4-Tom 1

5-Tom 2

6-Floor Tom

7-OH L

8-OH R

9- Guitar

10-Bass

11-Keys L

12-Keys R

13-

14-

15-

16-

17-Vox 1

18-Vox 2

19-Vox3

20-Vox 4

21-Vox 5

22-Wireless 1

23-Wireless 2

24-Wireless 3

25-CD L

26-CD R

27-Media L

28-Media R

 

So, overall, pretty much what Alan said below, with the inclusion of an extra drum channel. I left out Channels 13-16 so that all 5 vox channels could be together, instead of being split up by the masters section on the mixer.

 

 

 

HTH,

 

Chris

[James Remo]

I group all the "big action" channels near the masters, so anything I need instant access to is under my fingertips. Similar to the above suggestions. For example when mixing a conference on a 32ch desk with a pair of lectern mics, 6 radio lavs, 4 radio hh, top table mics, dvd, beta and cd playback I work backwards from the master section thus

 

Master section

Stereo Channels - CD

32 - lecturn

31 - lecturn

30 - lav 6

29 - lav 5

.....

26 - lav 2

25 - lav 1

24 - top table 4

23 - tt 3

22 - tt 2

21 - tt 1

20 - hh 4

19 - hh 3

18 - hh 2

17 - hh 1

16 - beta R

15 - beta L

14 - dvd R

13 - dvd L

12 - vhs R

10 - vhs L

9 - Pc 2 R

8 - Pc 2 L

7 - Pc 1 R

6 - Pc 1 L

etc etc

 

So the high use channels are grouped by the masters, with the seldom used inputs further down the desk. For bands if I know I wont get extra elements thrown into the mix I will map out the desk in a similar way, so vox and fx returns next to the masters, then brass, strings, guitars, keys, bass then drums down at the far end (hopefully not dropping on to a sub mixer if the gig has been spec'ed properly!) If it's a band I'm not familiar with I'll leave gaps to add in any extra mics I might need (mic as well as di'ing bass, top and bottom mic'ing large brass instruments, extra percussion, piccolo snares, leaving channels for stereo guitar setups etc.) the sort of stuff that gets forgotten off riders when session musicians make up bands and rotate due to other commitments.

When working as house engineer for events where there isn't the budget to flim flam between two desks I assign blocks of channels for jobs, so 1 to 12 would be drums and percussion, 13 + 14 bass, 15 to 19 Guitars, 20 thru 24 keys, and so on and so forth. This helps with fast turn arounds as similar instruments turn up at the same place all weekend if a festival (often using the same mics and similar eq settings to start from)

But as has been said before, any method that works for you is good. One of the enginers I system tech for puts his lead vox in the center of the desk and works "out" each way from there. Earlier in my career I tried setting up the desk as bands were set up onstage, so guitar vox was next to the guitar channel. Great for mixing 12 inputs but it got confusing when sclaed up to 24+ inputs.

[paulears]

All these make sense, and I'd be happy using them. For me, though, the most useful thing is a bag of coloured fader knobs, so I can have say, white for most mics, with red for the most important one, putting the odd black one in breaks sections - and makes finding things quicker - especially as my writing is pretty grim, and I need glasses now - I can grab a colour much easier than reading a sharpie scribble!

[dknoise]

I did a bit of a search but couldn't find anything so here goes ...

 

what is the general practice for choosing what channel for what use?

 

we are getting a gl2800-32 and will have the following:

 

5 vox channels

7 drum channels

1 guitar

1 keys (could run stereo)

1 bass

3 wireless mics

2 cd channels

2 media channels

 

where would you put what?

 

over to the great minds of BR!

 

Just to add more spanners (in works) .......I mean options, I usually do drums first, CD/media far right, then everything else as I see it lined up on stage from left to right (but with vocals all in one spot left to right).

[mervaka]

All these make sense, and I'd be happy using them. For me, though, the most useful thing is a bag of coloured fader knobs, so I can have say, white for most mics, with red for the most important one, putting the odd black one in breaks sections - and makes finding things quicker - especially as my writing is pretty grim, and I need glasses now - I can grab a colour much easier than reading a sharpie scribble!

 

I do this, but by moving the coloured master knobs over :)

 

for me, this all varies on the job at hand. for example, tonight I did a 12 channel mix of the following:

 

1 kk

2 sn

3 rt

4 ft

5 bass

6 gtr left

7 gtr right

8 DI 1

9 DI 2

10 vox left

11 vox right

12 vox drum

 

and variations of this let me do 3 bands \o/

[gareth]

This thread has the potential to go on and on and on, with people just posting their own personal favourite variation of how they'd lay out your specific combination of channels. The bottom line, though, is that there's isn't really a 'right' or 'wrong' way to do it - if you're going to be mixing, then lay it out in the way you feel most comfortable with.

[minty]

This thread has the potential to go on and on and on, with people just posting their own personal favourite variation of how they'd lay out your specific combination of channels. The bottom line, though, is that there's isn't really a 'right' or 'wrong' way to do it - if you're going to be mixing, then lay it out in the way you feel most comfortable with.

 

True, although the vast majority of riders I see (and my own riders) tend to follow a fairly standard lay-out...

 

Kit

Bass

Guitars

Keys

Whatever else

Vox

Fx

Playback

 

Obviously this only works for a fairly 'standard' rock layout.

 

My 2p

 

M

[Rob_Beech]

Remember the master section isn't in the same place on every desk. It certainly isn't at the end on the GL2800. Unless you need extensive EQ options on the playback, Look to putting those on the Stereo channels on 15 and 16. 1 fader instead of 2 then.

 

As for the rest, it's really up to you. Most people start with the kit, then the backline as you see it, including any keys, brass / other instruments, and the vocals at the end.

 

Doing things as you look at them for backline is always handy. Example, in a festival situation I'll put a DI box either side of the stage, so a bass player can plug into either, and it'll be in the right location on the desk dependant open where he or she stands on the stage in relation to the guitar.

I don't think I've ever seen the drums done, kick, FT, R1 R2 Snare etc etc etc, interesting, why is that your preference?

I've always done K S H T1 T2 T3 OH Or 2 Toms and 2 OH's however you have it.

I'd leave channel 8 blank.

and start the next block with your guitar, bass and 2 keys channels however they appear on the stage, so if the keys are stage right, start with them, if the bass is on stage right start with that etc. Leave 13 and 14 free for when they put an extra guitar or 2nd keyboard in. Your playback on stereo's 15 and 16, and that gives you a full 16 channels to put your vocals. I've put the wired on 25-29 and the wireless on the 3rd bank (17+) but you have plenty of channels to go at.

I've always nice to leave gaps between sections for lots of reasons.

 

If you have more than one act and you want different eq you can repatch channels. A channel failure (though rare) is easier to work around.

Alter the colours around for lead vocals, you've got a spare Yellow you probably don't use from the M out, and 4 blues you could swap.

 

 

Rob

[gnomatron]

There are situations where it will matter what order you put things in though; for example if you have a few bands sharing basic backline elements like drums and two or more folk mixing over the course of a night, or if you have a band that will be the same setup over the course or days or weeks with different people on the desk. There isn't a hard and fast way of doing things at all, as most of the time an engineer only has to worry about what works for himself, but there does seem to be a rough consensus.

 

I'd second Minty's set up, it tallies with most riders I've seen and my own preferences. Often the left to right placement of channels on the desk will echo the left to right placement onstage; so the left hand guitar as you look at the stage will be on the left of the desk, with the right hand one on the right. Seems obvious but is worth pointing out.

For the OP's purposes I'd suggest something along those lines, though you have a lot of vox, if you include the radios, so might want to lay them out to reflect any obvious groupings; i.e. group backing singers together and leads together.

[crox]

thanks all. It will pretty be much the same setup every week, until we get some new musicians!

 

Good point on playback channels being on stereo channels. I think that drums from far left, with other instruments, then vox to the right of the master channel is how I would probably go normally, so ...

[MarkPAman]

One variation I've seen that had some logic to it was with the drums "backwards".

 

OHs, low -> hi toms, Hats, Sn, Kick. This brings the more important parts closer to the middle of the desk & also puts Kick & Bass next to each other. Also (for a right handed drummer) the toms appear left to right.

[ian_gibbs]

One thing I've noticed about the posts here that is different from myself is that I tend to put the Bass next to the kit as that's how I tend to run my groups. My Fx also tend to go at the end of the desk ie Ch 29 - 32 depending how many I'm running.

 

Also (appologies if this should be a separate topic, Mods please move it if it is) I'm iterested in peoples opinions about jumping Vox channels for the monitors, ie. I quite often when space allows jump my Vox mics to seperate channels so I have independant EQ for FOH and monitors. Do other people do this or is this just a me thing?

 

Ian

[Bobbsy]

Well, I do mainly theatre rather than bands (i.e. vocal monitors are a rarity) but I often "jump" vocal channels onto multiple inputs to allow me to use different EQ where RF mics are swapped mid-show.

 

Or, when using a digital board, I just use scene presets to do the same thing.

 

Either way, it's a useful trick if you have enough spare channels.

 

Bob