Yorkie Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I've been asked to get a 4 pair, 15m multicore for our church. It will be used twice a week and put away in between. I am hoping that I will be able to make one myself, but if it's cheaper to buy one then I think we should do that. I have looked on a few websites, and the cable is more expensive than I expected. We don't want to buy something cheap that turns out rubbish, but at the same time we can't buy something where the cost will substantially outweigh it's benefits (I suspect this is the case for us with Van Damme Tourgrade). Does anyone know any other potential suppliers other than these, preferably similarly priced or cheaper: Canford: HSJ4 (£2.63/m), FSJ4 (£2.24/m)Thomann: CORDIAL CMS 4 (£2.08/m), Sommer Quantum Highflex 4 (£2.92/m)CPC: Pro Power 4 Pair (£56.20/50m, I get a lot left over)Ebay: Connectronics Ultraflex (£19/10m)(all prices include VAT) Also does anyone have any particular opinions that might help me in cable choice, or know if HSJ's shielding makes it better (and worth paying more for) than FSJ? Alternatively, if anyone here could make up a competitively priced cable (4x NL3MX or NL3MXX, 15m multipair, small stagebox, 4x NC3FD, appropriate colouring/numbering, delivered to Yorkshire by Wed 21/01/09) please PM me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 well, it's not Neutriks, but CPC do a 8-way 15m multi, on a reel, for less than 50 pounds... not exactly what you're looking for, but if it's only being used twice a week and being put away afterwards, the drum may come in handy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew C Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 The advantage of hsj over fsj will be flexibility and longevity. It is good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmills Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 used twice a week and put away in between. FSJ4 (£2.24/m) FSJ is a foil screened installation cable, it is not made to be repeatedly flexed, HSJ however is suitable, and is probably what I would reach for in this application. Regards, Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I have some 4 pair foil screened from canford. I made the mistake of stripping back and putting connectors on the end in a fan-out. Not good. even with some braid protection the foil is weak. I've another run of it terminated the same way but in permanently and it's fine. So I concur with the others. In real terms, it's perhaps cheaper to buy a proper multi with more cores, so if you need more they are there, and if one does go down because of repeated use, you have spares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyramid Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Yorkie£2 per m cable ~£30£2 per connector ~£16Min. Cost for parts =£36. (+VAT?) For £50-£60 I would buy a made up one on a drum like this from Thomman or as Bruce suggests from CPC. http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_sssnake_mct_8...auf_trommel.htm If you are not totally sure what you're doing and are competent with a soldering iron it is most definately worth the extra £20 or so (especially bearing in mind a drum could cost that much and helps to keep the cable in good condition...) This type of snake is not the strongest in the world but offers incredible value for money - you have expansion capacity too! Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Beech Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 This type of snake is not the strongest in the world but offers incredible value for money - you have expansion capacity too! I would at least look to replace the tails with Neutrik connectors as the standard ones on the S<Insert typical Robstyle number of S's here>nake are not very good. I've never had an issue with panel connectors, or the cables. However I think Andy makes a VERY reasonable point about expansion capacity. Of course, there is only you who knows exactly what this item will be used for but we all know that one day you'll need 5 then 6 and then 8 and you'll find the cost of 2 4 way looms is between 3 and 4 times the price of an 8 way. Less flexible than 2 4 ways yes. But you only planned for 1 4 way, so it isn't a relevant argument. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Siddons Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Havea look at these guysThe Loudest I've got one and am quite impressed, the box it comes in is awesome! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hounsome Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 have a look at VDC Trading. these are the people most of the industry use. very good make to order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I can second VDC trading for quality--they've done several multicores for me and they build an excellent product. The prices aren't bad either, considering it's all Van Damme cable and Neutrik connectors...but if you're looking for "cheap" they may not be the place. However, you'll be able to order exactly what you want and the make them incredibly quickly. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 Thanks for all the replies. For £50-£60 I would buy a made up one on a drum like this from Thomman or as Bruce suggests from CPC. http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_sssnake_mct_8...auf_trommel.htmwell, it's not Neutriks, but CPC do a 8-way 15m multi, on a reel, for less than 50 pounds... not exactly what you're looking for, but if it's only being used twice a week and being put away afterwards, the drum may come in handy...This type of snake is not the strongest in the world but offers incredible value for money - you have expansion capacity too!I would at least look to replace the tails with Neutrik connectors as the standard ones on the S<Insert typical Robstyle number of S's here>nake are not very good. I've never had an issue with panel connectors, or the cables. Rob's hit the nail on the head here guys, my opinion is that by the time you've replaced the plugs with something decent, the cost has gone up and you may as well have built it properly in the first place. I've experienced connectors other than neutrik before. I have seen faketrik connectors where the connector backshell has smashed to pieces, and bought connectors like the ones on the SSSnake drum before when I had no choice and they've just not been as durable or userfriendly as the Neutrik X or XX series. The drum might be handy if it weren't that everything has to be carried out of the room and down a staircase each time; a cable that will fit in the box we already use is preferable in this case. Havea look at these guysThe Loudest I've got one and am quite impressed, the box it comes in is awesome! :DThe smallest system they appear to make is 12 way 15m; way too big for what we need. Our principal concern is the cable rather than the box. This type of snake is not the strongest in the world but offers incredible value for money - you have expansion capacity too!A myth has been perpetuated that 'incredible value for money' can be applied to the cheapest product available. In fact, the cheapest product will normally offer unbelievably bad value for money. What use is a £50 cable if it costs £10 and another hour of my time to repair it less than a year down the line. I suspect that VDC cables offer much better value for money than The SSSnake in the long run, and they're some of the most expensive (In terms of mean time between failures). However I think Andy makes a VERY reasonable point about expansion capacity. Of course, there is only you who knows exactly what this item will be used for but we all know that one day you'll need 5 then 6 and then 8 and you'll find the cost of 2 4 way looms is between 3 and 4 times the price of an 8 way.I did suspect that multipair cable got cheaper the more pairs it hard, but the drop isn't quite as substantial as I had expected. (Van Damme Tour Grade: £1.09/pair/metre at 4 core, £0.63/pair/metre at 48 core). I should have said too, that we currently only need two pairs, and any expansion is likely to include more wireless than wired kit. The current powered mixer only has 4 mono channels too so we'll not be using lots just yet. In real terms, it's perhaps cheaper to buy a proper multi with more cores, so if you need more they are there, and if one does go down because of repeated use, you have spares.I’d assumed that the ends of the cable were the weak link (plus any bit that gets subject to harsh physical conditions); although I’m not sure that I’m basing this on any fact. I would be interested to know any other theories as to where multipair cables break. We don't want to buy something cheap that turns out rubbish, but at the same time we can't buy something where the cost will substantially outweigh it's benefits (I suspect this is the case for us with Van Damme Tourgrade).have a look at VDC Trading. these are the people most of the industry use. very good make to order.I can second VDC trading for quality--they've done several multicores for me and they build an excellent product. The prices aren't bad either, considering it's all Van Damme cable and Neutrik connectors...but if you're looking for "cheap" they may not be the place. However, you'll be able to order exactly what you want and the make them incredibly quickly.I'm aware that VDC make some great cables, though like I said the price is unjustifiably large for this particular situation. I thought that Canford HSJ was also a pro quality cable – and it seems much less expensive than Van Damme Tourgrade. Am I mislead? I’m warming to 15m of HSJ4, with one of these, one of these, four of these and four of these. I will put 10cm of heatshrink over where the cable breaks out into four, and put clear heatshrink on near the plugs with coloured insulating tape under it to denote which pair is which. All I need to do now is be patient with my panel cutting. I will be front mounting the XLR sockets though, unless I make a really good job of the holes (I don't have a punch tool, and so will be drilling and filing unless I think of something else soon). I expect that the total cost of the cable will be £65-70. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Beesley Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 If you are adapting a metalclad box why not use a pre-drilled XLR plate??? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 If you are adapting a metalclad box why not use a pre-drilled XLR plate??? :DIf you can guarantee it will fit, and that it won't overhang, it may be worth the cost! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Beesley Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I will check first thing tomorrow morning for you - they are manufactured by Penn Elcom for UK backboxes so should do the job. If it doesnt try a Step Drill to give you a 24mm diameter hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 I came to sense and eventually ordered one of these: 22.5mm round sheet metal punch. Admittedly it's 1.1mm too small, but I have a file, and a hole that's too small is simpler to rectify than a hole that's too big. Parts ordering isn't going too well though. CPC's level of service didn't reach my expectations, and Canford have no HSJ4 in stock "and the lead time islikely to be quite a number of weeks". Hats off to them for phoning me, e-mailing me and allowing me to cancel the order though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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