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[P. Funk]

im not in the mood (or probably ability) to explain why, but you really shouldnt be running a strobe off a dimmer. firstly, it won't like the spikes in current, and secondly, thats one less dimming channel you have to play with.

 

If you need to, run an extension from the control area to the strobe, and used a switch to control it! or run hot power, and build a 10V strobe controlelr (assuming thats what the strobe takes)

 

right... expansion on sparkleshark

 

I cant remember it that well, but when I saw it, the set was static, of the top of a high-rise building.

 

you can get some very nice effects for the 'magic' bits without using automated fixtures, and if you design cleverly, you can use the same lanterns to create these effects as are being used for the rest of the play.

 

just another observation: if its predominantly parents coming to watch the production (rather than pupils), I would think you could push the price up to £5 a ticket. which would give you more money to play with.

 

In 2003, we ran 2 5 night runs of 2 productions (one in jan, one in november) for £7 a ticket, at capacity (200 seats). Thats £7000 each time we made off tickets, and got local companies to sponsor the program.

 

2004 has been much less successful, with us making an undisclosed loss on the first show, but then I suppose you do get some which are doomed to failure (like a dramatisation of cinderalla for example :( )

[Stu]

Well IMHO opinion...

 

Best thing here is to drop the followspot & strobe channels as this gives you an extra 3 channels here to play with. Even if they are 5A, it'll go a long way.

 

Next thing is don't be afraid to not use kit you've just aquired... If a 650w fresnel from stock is going to do a better job than a 1k Par from stock, then use it. Lighting Design is all about creating the right looks, with the right kit, when it's possible. If you've got the right kit, then do use it - old and rusty can sometimes be good! (Otherwise we'd have binned 743s years ago!).

 

Just enquire about looking for anyone who has spare Prelude Fs or Profiles about, this is likely to be your best idea.

 

Then spend any money you do get on Gels!

 

I'm sure this show will be just as successful without movers! :P Don't worry, we've all been young and innocent once, and wanted to use the new, shinest, most exciting kit, but learning to use the older stuff in place of it is also one skill that'll help you advance! :(

 

Stu

[vinny baby]

I think sometimes people get a little moving light happy, of course they are new thing, and everyone in the lighting industry must have them, in order to have a light show.

 

I find that that the best way of learning lighting design, is by using generic laterns. It takes much more of a talent to create states with gens rather than intelligent fixtures.

 

I think also some of the lesser experienced people forget, and seem to think that by having intelligent fixtures, instead of generics, is a way of cutting down Ampage, and load.

 

in most cases High end movers that use discharge lamps pull a far greater current than you would exspect, and more often than none, they pull more than a generic latern, its also keen to note that during the striking of a discharge lamp, used in most moving lights, the ampage used doubles, for a moment whilst the ballast, and igniter start the lamp.

 

with a typical 1200w Arc based mover taking 1480W at 230V/50Hz, constant pull, this will almost double at strike.

 

vince

 

Ps also I would rather see a nicely lit production, and well thought out grid using Pars, fresnels, and profiles ect. Rather than an over dramatic moving light show, that is not been designed, but instead made, to look by the un-expericenced, as a cheap disco, and have used movers because they can

[James C]

One reason for wanting movers may just be that Daniel wants to have a play with them in order to learn more about them, which is perfectly understandable.

 

However, Daniel, it's worth bearing in mind that in a pressured situation, with a show that needs to go up on time, you'd be well-advised to stick with what you know (Having just used the adobe audition demo software for the first time while in a hurry, I assure you that there's a lot to be said for having experience of kit before you need to use it in anger! Incidentally - I'm very impressed with it - just trying to justify buying it at education rates at the moment).

 

If you want to get a feel of a certain fixture, what it does and how it does it, you'd do well to contact a local supplier and be honest with them. Say you simply want to try out a certain piece of kit and learn how to use it. If you ask nicely enough, they may invite you over for a demo, or better still, bring kit to your school and demonstrate it to you there.

[DanielArkley]

I think what computer was suggesting was that you tried to blag some more followspots rather than moving heads.

Again, it sounds really cool, and is a great idea - I'm sure. There is the problem of space though - it is already crowded on the balcony anyway. There is little space for adding extra F/Ss (that the plural of follow spots in shorthand? :( ) on top of the two we already have, unless of course we put them down on the floor of the studio and people had the opportunity to smash them to bits. There isn't even enough room for video cameras on tripods up there, they have either had to be propped up against the window in the actual box, or taped onto the balcony rail in the correct position! Our current CCT Silhouette Turbo's hang from the bars.

 

This, again, is another reason I wanted to get in some MLs. Granted, they are harder to program than pushing a fader to the top of it's track, but we have used some Mac500s for the same purpose during Blood Brothers (combined with several yards of black gaffa tape on the floor so the actors stood in the right places). They can be hung in the middle of the rig, they work properly (one of our Sil's is missing it's lamptray that we don't have the budget to buy at the moment), and tended to show up more clearly during Blood Brothers than the Sils did, through the Parcans.

 

As Peter said about desks, you also have to learn how the desk works. I have already used Artist during Blood Brothers, and whilst I claim to be no professional I feel competent at programming using it.

 

Peter also mentioned scrollers. I have already spoken to Matt about borrowing some from Yateley School to go on the front of our par cans.

 

If I'm honest with you, the three main problems we have are:

- Lack of dimming

- Lack of lanterns

- Lack of space (in a way).

 

Our dimmer packs are Pulsar jobbies that, despite stating 6x10A on the front panel will only put 5A down each socket pair. Obviously, that means we can load 1200W per channel. If we do indeed need to leave the F/Ss in, that leaves us 1 or 2 channels down (depending on whether we can get a lamp tray). We only have 3 functional profiles, 2 functional floods, and 3 functional fresnels, so we are short on lanterns in that department - we would be hiring in more or less an entire generic rig without the par cans! We do have new lamps for the fresnels and profiles that will be on their way soon, but those aren't the only problems with the lanterns - plugs that need their fuses replacing, dimmer packs that need their fuses replacing, the list goes on.

 

Vince, yep. We do get moving light happy. Perhaps I am. I also feel that the benefits of using some MLs overrule the cons in this particular case.

 

James mentioned the pressured situation of getting the show ready on time. Again, I would agree with you if it were not for the fact that I have 10 completely free days before the tech runs in which I can rig, and get everything programmed. I am anticipating that it will take 5 days to do the rigging, then use the remaining 5 days to plot and test, before the tech runs on the Saturday. The latter 5 days will more than likely include putting up any hire equipment we are kindly leant, and adding that into our plot. Obviously there is the scope for things to go wrong at any time during those 10 days, but to put it simply, if we don't have the time it doesn't get included.

 

I would like to thank everyone for their points of view, and im some cases offers, so far. I have read them, but normally once I get something into my head it is quite hard to get it out again, mainly due to the fact that I get excited about the smallest of things.

[gareth]

I am anticipating that it will take 5 days to do the rigging

:P :( :huh: :o

 

5 days?! I'm usually lucky if I get 5 hours! B-)

[DanielArkley]

I'm on exam leave at the moment, but the exams finish on the 18th of June, and the performances start on the 28th. Those 10 days are all mine to do as I will - so I'm off to school again :(. The tech run is on the 25th and 26th, but that will be my opportunity to ensure everything is OK, and make the necessary changes on the 27th.

 

We normally then have a final rehearsal in the afternoon of the first performance (matineé?) and what happens then is usually what goes.

[Tomo]

Suggestions:

 

Hard power the followspots from 13A - a semaphore gel changer with some heat-resistant card in one slot will allow the operator to dim them - takes a little practice, but it works. (And it's how you dim the bigger f/spots anyway)

 

The strobe should also be hard-powered - there are all kinds of reasons for this, but the main ones are that strobes don't like dimmed mains and dimmers don't like large surges.

Both do funky things to the electronics, so you risk damaging the strobe and/or the dimmer.

 

That gives you a few more dimmed channels to play with.

 

Once you've set up your general covers, think about some strange angles to project some interesting beams from, and have a look through the DHA gobos for some nice breakups.

 

A hazer would be nice, as it brings out the beams and lets you do some really interesting effects.

(Simple example: Open white solid beams)

 

In summary:-

Look through all the kit you have in stock. Everything has a use, even that little Patt 23 you've been ignoring all these years.

See what you can do with generics - remember, if you are hiring, you can usually get four or five generics for the cost of a single mover - it is really worth it?

 

I've seen too many shows where the budget was obviously spent on a whole load of moving lights and hiring a desk they've never used before, and when they had them they didn't know what to do with them. And it was painful to watch.

[Matt]

I agree with the supervision with the movers. but as I ahve worked with dan before I'd say he is confident enough to use them on his own, and when ours were left there during they day, he made sure no-one touched him and I confirmed this with his HoD, thing is, its just getting them in the ceiling I'd be worried about.

 

and regarding dans post about full overide, the dimmers he has (we have some also) is there is a switch on the front of the pack which just lets you to put full current/voltage down the line, or feed it through the dimmer, alothough I agree this isnt the safest way to run strobe and f/s, but it is the only way a majority of us schools can run it.

 

we arent built with enough power for everything to have its own supply, my place has been waiting for a power supply to power our new pack for a year and a half now, and STILL, would you believe it or not, they installed the wrong one, we demanded a 128a 3phase, they installed 32a 3phase :(

 

though I have paid for hiring movers for his place before (barnum - remember the 250's dan) we are trying to arrange somethign for it this time, and the deadline for it is the end of may, so I'll let you know all the details on that etc...

 

and dan is good at utilising his generic stock, but I have been trying to introduce him into new technology he hasnt used before, though the movers will only be used to provide static spots (possibly - seeing as I dont know the play), he is planning to use a relatively big stock of movers for grease in november - and I thought I'd be helpful and offer my experience.

 

PS - I'll try and get our hazer if you want it mate, though it creates more noise than visble haze

[TomLyall]

we demanded a 128a 3phase, they installed 32a 3phase

 

BEWARE PEDANT:

 

possibly because such a thing does not exist? :(

[Ike]

we arent built with enough power for everything to have its own supply, my place has been waiting for a power supply to power our new pack for a year and a half now, and STILL, would you believe it or not, they installed the wrong one, we demanded a 128a 3phase, they installed 32a 3phase

32a per phase is a hell of a lot for a school theatre, I know it may not seem it when you look at big tours or other sectors of the entertainments industry however it does equate to about 38 600W lanterns or 22 1KW pars on full load at any one time (excuse the bad mental maths). Don't forget the extra flexibility you get with repatching mid show and not running everything at full load.

[Ike]

we demanded a 128a 3phase, they installed 32a 3phase

 

BEWARE PEDANT:

 

possibly because such a thing does not exist? :(

Says who?

 

Just because there are not commonly available connectors or overcurrent protection devices of that rating doesn't mean a 128A feed can't be installed.

 

I'm guessing it was however 125A per phase.

[TomLyall]

true I supose, I assumed we were talking ceeforms :(

 

I'll get my coat...

[P. Funk]

for our shows, we run 13 amp extensions from many other departments - we got suspicious that we might be pushing the one 30A ring main we have a bit too far when turning a desk lamp on tripped it :(

 

I have to say though - I don't remember any specials at all being needed in sparkleshark... maybe its just me...

[DanielArkley]

In theory I suppose, specials aren't needed anywhere. It depends on the designers preference, and in this case the designer asked for movers which is why I am asking :(