training new people

[crox]

where do you start? Our technical team is pretty good in terms of knowledge for sound, AV, lamps etc, but we want to increase the number of people serving in the life of the church.

 

Where do you start with training new people? Any good linky's out there?

 

We will have a new desk as well, so it will take me sometime to get to know the capabilities of that, before showing anyone else!

 

Are training courses worth it, for people doing sound in a church set-up, with one professional-esque performance a year? If so, any recommendations for Surrey way?

[berry120]

Don't know of any links to point you to I'm afraid - but in my experience in a church setting people seem to learn best by shadowing others who are more experienced. It'll obviously differ from church to church but with most churches it seems the setup's pretty similar each week, the same sort of things are done each week and unless you're at a really big church it's not overly complicated either. Because of the repetitive nature of it I've found people tend to learn the basics quite quickly just by shadowing each week or every other week - obviously with some explanation as well, but that way people can pick things up at their own pace and then do things on their own when they feel confident. On the other hand, a generic training course wouldn't teach them about the things specific to your church and might well go overkill on areas that they wouldn't necessarily need to know about.

 

In terms of the professional performance once a year, how big is it, and how much does it differ from your normal set up? Again if you or others are confident with handling this size of event I'd say people could probably learn well by just shadowing, though what works best for your church will obviously depend on the details.

[rooftop]

Not specifically church related, but often the biggest issue to overcome in other amateur* environments is those who currently op sound, LX, etc, being willing to let go of the reigns and letting others have a go. It might need some TLC from the top down to make sure that your current ops don't feel as if they are being pushed out.

 

* I mean amateur as in doing for the love of it, rather than as a profession.

[Matt Riley]

Warning - long post!

 

I haven't run it yet, but am just finishing putting together some training for some of our guys to turn them into slightly more useful engineers

 

The basic idea is to turn a load of stereotypical church sound guys into people that really know enough about the theory of what they're doing not to be dangerous (and quelling all those myths like why it's not going to have any issues if you send phantom to a 58) , and then give them space to learn how to put together a sound rig properly before teaching them some principles of how to mix better.

 

AM:

 

1. How Sound works

a. Wave Theory

b. What is sound?

c. Speed of sound

d. Wavelengths

e. PHASE+polarity

f. What are we trying to achieve?

2. How Loudspeakers work

a. Cone/ driver magnet

b. Horns for HF/ discussion on benefits/ drawbacks of horns/ CD horns

c. Dispersion

d. Why statistics lie – nominal dispersion angles

3. Loudspeaker arrays and array behaviour

a. Comb filtering

b. Phase cancellation

c. Array theory – subs – mirror sources and cardiod sub arrays

d. Delays – the Haas effect

4. Electronics

a. Balanced audio

b. How DI boxes work/ why they’re good

c. How Phantom Power works

5. Mixing – practical use 16 ch multitrack recording – perhaps have 2 systems

 

Dwell on how best to structure a soundcheck, how best to sort out people issues etc etc.

a. Checking patch/ checking mons and FOH work

b. Ringing out – exercise

c. Gain structuring

I. Include clipping and noise floor explanation

d. Mic placement

e. Use of channel strip EQ

f. Mixing monitors

g. Use of compressors/gates – when, why, how

h. Use of reverbs (briefly)

I. General points to conclude

 

If you want to spoon some of it off, then D&B cover the electroacoustics bit (ie speakers and acoustics) really well in their free course (and lunch is included!) Also I've done digi desk training with Mark Payne at SFL in Reading which was excellent, and I'm told that the basic mixing techniques and the basic acoustics courses, both of which cost about £50 per head IIRC are even better.

 

HTH,

 

Matt

 

Edit: Having said that, this is probably way too in depth just for training normal, new Sunday morning types, tho giving them desk time in a non pressured environment is vital IMO

[6th Order]

My best advice for this is that people learn this kind of stuff best in a team.

 

Whatever type of training you decide on, train together; old and new. The little conversations and questions will start to come out and people can open up more.

 

Matt's list is very good, but there's nothing wrong with taking your time to work through it. Maybe by creating specific jobs you can make serving more accessible i.e. setup team don't have to tear down. Have a stage team, FOH team etc and rotate people through all the areas until they have a well rounded knowledge.

 

One thing I have found with technicians in church is you often find very willing people getting overwhelmed. Breaking it down may help?

[Simon Lewis]

Crox,

 

Training courses can be good, do not always meet the trainee's needs. Having said that - the d&b electroacoustics course is very useful; New Wine sometimes run PA talks at their worship leader sessions, and there are various other events you can go to.

 

Matt's list is great, but I suspect that it would 'lose' most volunteers fairly quickly. Perhaps it needs delivering in smaller bites!

 

Why not work on the areas that they feel they have problems with and work through some solutions? Another approach is to work out "levels" of knowledge and even have a grade system - if that helps - (can turn system on / can push faders up and make a noise / can use eq reactively and proactively / can carry out a full soundcheck / can multitask with various media playback, band, multiple radios and a dodgy dance cassette / can singlehandedly tune the system to +/- 1dB from DC to light with just a Biro and a Graham Kendrick LP....). Train people so that they can show they are competent at given levels - it makes progress a little easier and with defined steps.

 

Use mentoring. Use worship group practice for technical practice. Make sure the technical team are on the same footing as the music team, and that each group implicitly trusts the other. Make sure that whatever leadership you have values the technical team, but also realises the limitations and includes you whatever pastoral system you use. It's easy for people to be put off by complaints and criticisms from those who thought it was too loud / too quiet / too modern / too traditional. Make sure your team is inclusive, and take time for some social networking. If you feel that the "yearly special" may need some extra input, consider hiring an engineer in, and use it as a training / mentoring experience.

 

Have a look at the churchsoundcheck.com group... the US churches are often slightly different in their approach (i.e. performance / production oriented) but there are some good discussions there, as well as some good articles.

 

Just a few thoughts...

 

Simon

[berry120]

Edit: Having said that, this is probably way too in depth just for training normal, new Sunday morning types, tho giving them desk time in a non pressured environment is vital IMO

Incidentally, is there any reason why you're being so comprehensive with training? That's not a dig at all, I'm merely curious as to what sort of things your church does to make all that necessary!

Personally if it was just the normal sunday morning service style sound that was required with the average user just wanting to know how to mix reliably and well I'd try to keep training simple and to the point - meaning I'd cut almost all the theory stuff out of it and concentrate on the practical side of things.

 

Getting into array theory, dispersion angles and the internal workings of loudspeakers is all good and fun if you've got a bunch of hard core technician people that enjoy sitting and learning that sort of thing, but I've personally found the same thing that Phil's pointed out:

One thing I have found with technicians in church is you often find very willing people getting overwhelmed.

Don't get me wrong, I'd always include things like mic placement, how to mix monitors and how to use eq effectively - and if the church has compressors / gates / fx then those would probably go on the training list too. But I know for sure if I talked the advantages of different types of HF horns as part of church sound training, I'd probably end up with no-one willing to do any sound at all by the end of it! Perhaps I'm just boring :)

[crox]

thanks for the all the replies.

 

I head up the technical team which includes sound, av and lights, although my speciality is certainly sound. I am by no means anywhere near the level of most of you on here, but I get by, and probably know a heck of a lot more than most church p.a. people.

 

Our productions are funny things. We reckon that given our limited resources, in terms of money and people, they are awesome (yes, I know that I am biased), but according to visitors, they compare with some productions with significant budgets.

 

Our Christmas production, I was Technical Director and DSM'ing and therefore couldn't mix, which led to problems, as the person who was mixing doesn't have the same grounding or experience in that pressure environment. Cue a very tense dress rehearsal. Thankfully, it came together on the night, with the only problem being one singer forgetting to turn her wireless mic on, despite them being told to leave it on, brr.

 

I guess that I want everyone on the team to be at the same level on every discipline. AV is easiest taught, and then lighting (the basics), it is just the sound side that we need to get right. With our move to the cinema, it is hardly the best time to start giving other people full reigns, so perhaps, with the easier acoustics that the cinema will offer, that is the time to train more, especially given the new kit we will have in place.

 

I will have a look on the above links, and google a few too.

[donald463]

where do you start? Our technical team is pretty good in terms of knowledge for sound, AV, lamps etc, but we want to increase the number of people serving in the life of the church.

 

Where do you start with training new people? Any good linky's out there?

 

We will have a new desk as well, so it will take me sometime to get to know the capabilities of that, before showing anyone else!

 

Are training courses worth it, for people doing sound in a church set-up, with one professional-esque performance a year? If so, any recommendations for Surrey way?

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

Soundcraft used to offer 'Going Live' weekend courses which I found excellent.

They started with a basic mixing desk and ended with setting up a large PA with 48 channel desk and full foldback. They were very good with absolute beginners as well as the more knowledgable.