cedd Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Not a pressing technical requirement, just something that I've always wondered..... In We Will Rock You, the cast spend the whole of the show using headset mics. Then in the finale, all those taking solo's suddenly move to handhelds. The simple question is; Why?They could be props, the finale does take place in Wemberley Stadium and jokes are made about Pop being a roadie and bringing a mic on. That said, Killer Queen and Scaramouche also use handheld's in Bohemian Rhapsody. If they aren't props, do we think there is a reason for this change? Perhaps they are used due to the higher band SPL on stage and a greater need for the soloists to cut through? I really don't know,but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on why, especially if anybody has inside information? Either way, whatever they do with the sound in the finale, it sounds fantastic (as does the whole show actually). The night I saw it last, Pop ended up with a dodgy mic halfway through a scene, the no'2 must have been bloody quick with the swap, he was back working in the next scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 I'm speculating here but I seem to recall that the levels onstage are so bloomin' loud that the headsets can't manage, as you suggest above. That or there's different effects processing on the handhelds ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_the_LD Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 I saw it a week ago and believe it is becuase the finale features everyone, and as thus is loud, the headset mics would just not cut through. Also, I think there is a certain 'image' in Bohemium Rhapsody with the soloists using handhelds if that makes sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatfrog Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 When we did WWRY in school 2 years ago we used handhelds at the end as it just looks the part...The headsets aren't really that rock n roll like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I don't have any "inside knowledge" of WWRY but both theories put forward make sense. I did the sound design for a musical a couple of years back in which most of the second act was a simulated big band concert'/show (the first half, in typical fashion, was the "let's do the show right here!" preparations). In my design, all the concert stuff was done with hand held or stand mics (even though all the principles had over-ear or hairline mics) because this emphasised the difference between "backstage" and "onstage". However, as people have speculated, moving to handhelds also let me cope with the higher levels that were appropriate for the concert portion of the show. I suspect the mic choice in WWRY is for the same reasons. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cedd Posted January 4, 2009 Author Share Posted January 4, 2009 Thanks for the thoughts, both explanations seem probable, and are probably both true. I've got to say that I was pretty impressed with the overall performance of the headset mics used throughout. Whilst the finale is the big loud number, the rest of the show was by no means quiet. I guess the monitoring setup (although not visible) was pretty hefty. I'm working the schools edition of WWRY in July for a local high school. I'm still trying to decide whether to opt for handhelds or the headsets in the finale. Handhelds mean more channels to hire (or re-use receivers from characters not used in the finale) but will probably be easier to handle and will let me push the onstage levels (band are under the stage). However, being a bunch of kids, mic technique may well be a problem and might need a little workshop session to go through with them. One thing I've always found handhelds helpful for is school show finale's. They seem to play "pass the mic" and everyone ends up with their own solo in the umpteenth encore. At least the mic decides who sings, or it's worked out by the director in advance who gets it when, rather than the unwitting sound engineer having to guess and open the correct headset. Once again, the proper show was great. The cast seemed slightly tired, but it was the second show of the day. Everything was slick though (as you'd expect from a long running show I suppose). Certainly didn't feel like "just another show" from a technical point of view. Looking forward to the tour (and the rumoured sequel). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali2580 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I have been to see the London show and I have also worked on sound & lighting when AMYT performed WWRY at the Webster Theatre in Arbroath. When we performed it, we used one handheld for when Galileo is singing, mainly for the look of it since it is meant to be them performing at Wembley Stadium. (Video clips can be seen here - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YExdMyQwY6c). However, I agree with the previous posts that because the sound in the West End is much greater when they have to compete with the live band and they are singing solo's and how loud it actually is, I'm sure that is probably the reason why they each have handhelds. The sound at WWRY in the West End is unbelieveable and it is one of the best shows I have ever seen! Ali Ogilvie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenW2 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 First time I came accross this was on a cruise ship - the cast all used headsets for the majority of the numbers, but when there were 2 or 3 leads they used handhelds. The lead vocals were just stunning with the handhelds - way way above what the headsets could reproduce, but there would have been no way the cast could have danced with them all using handhelds. The change overs were slick and the engineer was using a Digico desk with all the scene changes programmed in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali2580 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 .....The change overs were slick and the engineer was using a Digico desk with all the scene changes programmed in. I read a post on other page that said it wasn't a Digico desk used for WWRY? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Headsets and feedback has always been a problem for loud shows, the two that spring immediately to mind are the Rocky Horror and Return to the Forbidden Planet. I seem to remember a tour or two of Rocky ago the sounbd crew went to enormous lengths totry and do the entire show without resorting to handhelds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nothingatall666 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 .....The change overs were slick and the engineer was using a Digico desk with all the scene changes programmed in. I read a post on other page that said it wasn't a Digico desk used for WWRY? I believe Steven is talking about the show on board the ship rather than that of the actual London WWRY ____edit to add both quote box's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali2580 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I believe Steven is talking about the show on board the ship rather than that of the actual London WWRY ____edit to add both quote box's Oh I forgot ha, my bad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac.calder Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 WRT the cruise ship - would not have been Independence of the Seas at all? (DigiCo D1, DPA 4065 headset mics, Beta57 handhelds)... If so, just a quick glance at the EQ needed to get the singers even slightly up above the band will show you exactly WHY handhelds were required (It has been suggested that changing headset mics to 4088's may help, but that is all up to the sound designer). There is such a high noise floor on the stage when you have a 12 piece orchestra behind and beside the singers, even without foldback... add foldback into the mix... I don't envy the sound techs job at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Ross Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 <br />WRT the cruise ship - would not have been Independence of the Seas at all? (DigiCo D1, DPA 4065 headset mics, Beta57 handhelds)... I was lucky enough to be a paying punter on the independence of the seas a few months ago and enjoyed having a good gander at all the gear they had. I must say that every show we watched in the frankly amazing onboard theatre sounded very good with good clear vocals and everything sitting nicely in the mix. Were you only there for the setup or was I listening to one of your mixes without knowing it? Oh and just to keep it slightly on topic some of the shows did the switching from headsets to handhelds for the solos to great effect but I have known shows to come on with handhelds that were just fakes and were purely used as props Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hounsome Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 WWRY London front monitors are hidden under the front edge of stage the are d&b E3's there is also 2 sets of side fills. I was mixing it there on sunday for the guest band that Hillsong Church London had. Hillsong add to the Monitor System by adding 16 sets of IEM's colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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