garfinkler Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Hi everyone. I am new to this forum and fairly new to lighting. Eventhough I have been a musician for 30 years I would appreciate any help as I have never been involved with the lighting side of things. I am in the process of setting up a solo tribute act (backing tracks/vocals) and I am currently shopping for lights to improve the visual element of the show. I need to keep the gear as simple as possible but I have been toying with the idea of using a laser (something like a Kam Star Cluster Green) with a fogger. However after reading posts on this and other forums I am a little worried about using a laser for the fear of causing injury. So I was wondering whether there was an alternative lighting effect that I could use to scan the crowd ie. many long narrow beams possibly of a single colour that would give the same type of movement as a laser but without the risk. Alternatively is there a way that I could use the laser to show of its effect without scanning forwards. I have a budget of around £500 with which I am hoping will get me a stage wash system, a small audience blinder and the laser effect (I already have the fogger). I will be very grateful for any help or ideas whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Pearce Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Laser effects can be faked with a projector, but you need a reasonably beefy projector and then something to generate the patterns, which will be more than £500. I'd spend the money on other things tbh, lasers are good but only really of use as a spot effect. They lose their impact after a while. However, thats my mind and the designer in me speaking, not your vision... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound In Gloucestershire Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 within your budget? theres no way however use a Kam Star Cluster and point it above heads, on the ceiling or even on the wall behind you, they are great little effects have a look at the new 3D Cluster, looks amazing in smoke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfinkler Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 Thaks both for your advice.I have thought about a projector but this would be outside my budget. I agree that the 3d cluster looks great but again outside my budget. I have seen the Kam Star Cluster for as little as £99 so I may try that pointed on the back wall as you suggested.The band that I also play with use NJD Spectres for stage wash and although these are heavy and get hot, they always seem to do a decent job so I have been considering buying a pair of my own or maybe icolour 4's which I'm hoping to opperate by footswitch. I am also thinking of getting a 4 cell par 36 blinder for the odd flash off light.These would all fit into my budget of £500ish but I guess I'm just looking for some reassurance that I'm doing the right thing so I would always welcome better/different ideas.Once again thanks for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger_Mushroom Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Hi,Yes, you are indeed right to be wary of lasers. I personally absolutely love them, but there are far too many restrictions out there with regards to their use that I personally would not take the chance. Your best bet is, I think for you, is to look into LED alternatives. There are quite a lot of 'disco' lights out there these days that can make just as good effects through smoke/haze (particularly if you are wanting to run it sound to light). After a five minute browse, I came across this as an example. It may be a bit too cheesy perhaps for what you want, but there are other similar designs out there that are more laser like. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eu2nFBlGwnQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound In Gloucestershire Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 yes the Kam Green Cluster is as low as £99 ( http://www.cdkm.co.uk/contents/en-uk/d168.html#p3338 ) however the green one isnt quite the same as the red and green one for £198 ( http://www.cdkm.co.uk/contents/en-uk/d168.html#p2595 ) as for the Icolor 4's great effects, but if you are buying 2, be sure to get the package including stands and case from the start or itll cost you a fortune later on (about £440) but if you buy from djkit now they have a sale on using coupon code DJkit2512 which brings it down to £395.99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfinkler Posted January 4, 2009 Author Share Posted January 4, 2009 I have heard good things about the icolour 4's so I think they maybe my choice for the stage wash. I think I may go for LED effects instead of a laser now. The Kam Derby looked great when it stayed on one colour and I would be happier to point it into the audience. Thanks for the advice. You've given me a different perspective. I would still love a laser though! Many thanks. Gaz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger_Mushroom Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Glad I could be of some help. I too am a fan of the iColour 4's and think you could have the start of a fantastic set-up, with plenty of room for expansion. I must just reiterate that I have never seen the Derby's in person, it came from just 5 minutes of searching the internet. I'd recommend you go look around some shops as there are literally hundreds of them type of LED effect lights on the market these days - another one may suit you better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 My opinion is, go with the lasers, they are essentially safe, if you want to just display a class 2 laser warning sign, which warns against staring into the laser, which is practically impossible to do anyway, then you are safe.I have not heard of any issues with this size laser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfinkler Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 As a newcomer to this forum I have to say that I am impressed with the advice that I have received from you all, thanks for your time. I may leave the laser idea at least until I know a little more about them. In the right situation I'm sure a laser would look very impressive as I don't recall seing a solo artist using one before. At the end of the day a striking light/laser effect may take the attention away from my dodgy vocals, ** laughs out loud **. Many thanks, Gaz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleah Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 My opinion is, go with the lasers, they are essentially safe, if you want to just display a class 2 laser warning sign, which warns against staring into the laser, which is practically impossible to do anyway, then you are safe.I have not heard of any issues with this size laser. David,It is important to be a little more cautious with lasers of any size. There are many cheap lasers around with inadequate safety measures or even markings.There are HSE guidelines detailing safe use of lasers, which should be adheared to. Not doing so is not only potentially dangerous but will void any PLI.The warning sign is meaningless to the public at large, they are only for the benifit of the operator to inform them of what they are dealing with, similar to class1 / class2 on electrical equipment. I have experience of operating 2w argon systems for display use. This new breed of solid state lasers scare me, how easy it is to buy them with little or no knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 "There are HSE guidelines detailing safe use of lasers, which should be adheared[sic] to. Not doing so is not only potentially dangerous"Of course there is potential danger in virtually every piece of equipment we use, from ladders to power cables, the safety guidelines for low power lasers are not onerous, I have done the local government course and it is not that hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleah Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 "There are HSE guidelines detailing safe use of lasers, which should be adheared[sic] to. Not doing so is not only potentially dangerous"Of course there is potential danger in virtually every piece of equipment we use, from ladders to power cables, the safety guidelines for low power lasers are not onerous, I have done the local government course and it is not that hard. Just spotted you're down under :biggrin: , regulations are possibly slightly different. A ladder or power cable poses virtually no threat to someone 100yards from it, however a laser does, much like a loaded gun does.It frieghtens me that any numpty can go buy a laser and blind someone with it, without the victim knowing there is a danger until it's too late.You need a license to buy a gun (well.....). With many things in industry, things that pose a significant danger to others often needs an operators license, or at the very least some kind of training certificate. You're right about the guidelines not being onerous, after all it's plain common sense once you understand what a laser does, so you and I are fine using them, it's the people who don't have a clue that are the problem. Anyone, such as the O/P who has taken the time to find and post in the Blue Room is most likely to read and absorb the advice given and be able to operate 'disco' type lasers quite safely, so any minor difference of opinion we may have in here is largely academic ;) - we're all on the same side and don't wish to indulge in dodgy working practices :biggrin: Waits for the "speak for yourself" replies :biggrin: :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfinkler Posted January 6, 2009 Author Share Posted January 6, 2009 This topic seems to be more contraversial than I would have thought. I have googled to find as much info as possible about the safe use of lasers but most of the jargon goes over my simple head. Fireworks are dangerous in the wrong hands but when handled responsibly can create a spectacle second to none. A large part of my daytime job is spent training people in the safe and efficient use of power tools particularly in public places so I am well aware of HSE guide lines on such matters and follow them to the letter. I have been enlightened by this forum to some of the pros and cons of lasers but I now feel very aprehensive to use them in my show. For a one man show it is sometimes difficult to keep the audiences total attention for a full 90 minutes non stop. I think that anyone at a show should be treated to a visual spectacle and if that can be achieved by lights/lasers, all well and good. Lasers look impressive and are becoming less expensive but does that mean that they are less safe? As I have said earlier in this thread I would love to create that spectacle by using a laser but I would only do so if I was confident that I would not injure anyone (including myself). Having said that, with help from this forum I feel that I could achieve a nice effect by using LED effects for now but I will be persuing the laser thing. By the way I think I'm becoming a lighting addict, is that a bad thing?!!! Thanks all, Gaz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipito Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Why just stop at being a lighting addict?Go the whole hog and become a laser addict ! :up: For more laser info than you can shake a stick at, visit Photonlexicon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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