dj-joshua Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Hi Im the technical director for my school and we are currently looking at funding for new equipment amongst this equipment we will be updating our rigging system we have the standard poles Like The Picture Shows Belowhttp://eisuk.net/Images/picbarlarge/picbar-(3).gifWe want to get electronic hoists to control the bars so the lighting is easily maintainable. We also share a cherry picker with another local school and only the caretaker is qualified to use is. due to myself and my team all being school members (Students) the school cannot under insurance cover reasons allow us to use it. The new rigging idea with electronic hoist is the main focus to the new DMX lighting rig we will be getting. However im not sure how reliable and how they would work. Thanks In advance for any help! Joshua BellOn Behalf Of All Saints RC Secondary School Mansfield :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 You've forgotten something. Motorised bars are great for re-rigging, re-gelling and re-lamping, but useless for focussing. They are usually quite slow in operation so raising them up and seeing it needs a bit to the left, lowering it and raising it again will drive you mad with the time taken, and also wear them out quicker, although that's probably not an issue. Plenty of people can install a motorised system for you, and can be a simple up/down/stop button or full computer controlled system with height sensing. I'd have thought that unless you're really well off, the school would be better looking into getting some access kit in ladder format - Big A-frame or Zarges style. Perfectly suitable for school use with some ladder training, fully insurable (loads of schools and colleges have no problem at all here) and with training, students deemed competent by somebody there can use them under supervision. The only reason for a piece of powered kit would be if somebody has deemed what you are doing as work - as in 'workplace' - something most schools and colleges are very careful NOT to do as then most educational activities suffer. It's a training centre so as long as they obey the usual safety processes, they have quite a lot of leeway. Have a search around the forum - there's plenty of info on this. In my own venue, all our front of house bars and stage LX bars 1 and 2 are on winches - some manual, some motorised and only LX2 gets used - it's usually empty and we bring it in to rig kit on it, winch it out, then get the ladder out. All these bars are focussed off A-frame ladders. bringing them in is easy - but you cannot focus at ground level! Moderation: I fixed the font, text size and colour - and gave it a new title that refects what the post is about - no trussing in sight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 There's a place for motor hung lighting bars...And the vast majority of schools isn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossmck Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I always thought an ideal rigging environment for a school would be the "trampoline grid" but I've got no idea of cost.. would have thought it'd have been comparable to motorised lighting bars though ... Certainly good for focussing, and reduces the risk of working at height... having said that when I was at school we had a scaffold tower and a zarges and no-one ever got hurt thanks to two things seemingly lacking in most schools these days... training and *common sense* :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex222 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Hi, I run all of the lighting and sound my collage as well (still a student). We have 6 electric hoist bars that are the width of the stage. They are great for rigging and de-rigging the lights quickly and effectively. In terms of focusing lights you still need good pair of zarges but if you are getting DMX movers they tend to be heavy and having a hoist to bring the bar down is much safer and easier than attempting to carry something like a Mac 500 up ladders!!. In a collage environment the hoists would be seen to be a better choice mainly because of safety and being up ladders they try to avoid due to insurance issues. If the money is available get the electric system, we have Northern Light in to install ours very good service :unsure: . Hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcog Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 attempting to carry a Mac 500 up ladders!! Are you being dead serious that you would carry a mac 500 up a ladder?!?! :unsure: That cant be possible, can it?? If thats the only reason why you want to instal moterorised bars, could you not just pop down to your local field and trek or whatever and buy 25m or static 10mm climbing rope?? Cost you 50 quid maximum :D James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDP Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 attempting to carry a Mac 500 up ladders!! Are you being dead serious that you would carry a mac 500 up a ladder?!?! :unsure: That cant be possible, can it?? Unfortunately, it is possible, and has been done several times by myself and others. In fact, I have done it with Mac 2000s and VL3000s before (with two ladders and two men). Not ideal, ideally you would use rope but there are circumstances where this isn't possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djw1981 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I was more interested in a sound and light collage........ :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex222 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 attempting to carry a Mac 500 up ladders!! Are you being dead serious that you would carry a mac 500 up a ladder?!?! :unsure: That cant be possible, can it?? James No I havent attempted to carry a MAC 500 up a ladder think I might die, (probably dident write it properly in my reply) and thats my point that if they are interested in moving towards DMX lighting then in the future there will probably be a pont when they will hire in a moving light and using a MAC 500 as an example how will they put it up? much easier with a hoist system. alex.r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danburns Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 ... there will probably be a pont when they will hire in a moving light and using a MAC 500 as an example how will they put it up?... Alex, I always find that if they're being rigged on fixed bars then a pulley, rope and carabiner arragement to get them up aways works. Usually involving a spanset and a bow shackle around the bar. Just have someone at the bottom who's taking the weight for you! Of course, all of this should be rated for the weight you're lifting. And if it's possible, make sure the pulley is rigged on a point that's higher than the bar so you can use the height to help lift the item into place (therefore you're not lifting weight at the top of a Zarges, just manouvering it!) Of course, you could always ask the caretaker nicely and get him to rig the mover from the picker! Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex222 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Hi, yes I would agree that for them that method of rigging would be a better solution for them especialy if the budget isn't verry big, this would then enables them to spend more money on lights :unsure: alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozztech Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 In a school environment , if the pupils were to change the bulbs / maintain the fixtures then motorized bars are a winner if however your caretaker can confidently change bulbs or maintain fixtures then this is an unnecessary expense as the caretaker can do all that you need. Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 In many qualifications people take nowadays, if people study the lighting elements then getting up a ladder and focussing is part of the process. If a school or college cannot allow this, then teach flower arranging instead. In schools, under 16, the the caretaker solution is fine, but then all people learn is part of the process - making them useless in the real world. Imagine doing maths, and not being able to divide, because it is dangerous? As I've said many times before it is perfectly possible for a college to get insurance to teach 16+ people how to use a flying, or static trapeze, or for schools to use javelins, or do the high jump, or handle chemicals that are either toxic or dangerous. It just needs competent teachers and technicians. If the teacher isn't happy supervising kids up a ladder, get one who is! Don't blame H&S for banning activities - it's uninformed staff who ban things. Personally, motorised bars with an all moving head equipment package is a great way to go - but moving bars don't solve the common problems, just the less frequent ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_the_LD Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Are you being dead serious that you would carry a mac 500 up a ladder?!?! :blink:Off topic - But I have seen people take Robe 700's up ladders which are heavier than a mac 500 I believe. On Topic - Where would the bars be? FOH or on stage or both? How much kit do you own? Would the money be better spent by buying a scaff tower and a zarge and then investing the rest in gear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmills Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Are you being dead serious that you would carry a mac 500 up a ladder?!?! :blink: I once wrestled a bloody cyberlight up a ladder. Hey I young and not very bright at the time! Flints do a couple of variations on the theme of ratchet blocks that are a godsend for this sort of thing. As to winched bars, something to consider is that a bar on any kind of motor is surely lifting equipment and thus comes under the lifting operations and lifting equipment regulations with their attendant inspection requirements. They thus have a reasonable amount of running cost even if nothing needs replacement as the periodic inspection is almost certain to be something you have to contract in. I would favour some suitable rigging equipment (Scaff tower?) as a matter of principle, as any student taking a serious interest is going sooner or later to have to rig at height directly, even professional venues normally need some things doing directly at height, and while any experienced hand will tend to keep an eye on the newbie, getting some experience in an environment where the job is to give that experience (Which is what I thought school was for) is surely safer then getting it on a real work site where everyone is otherwise busy? I don't think on balance that I find motorised bars in a general school environment any more desirable then I do moving lights in the same setup (And I don't think they are a good idea), now actually having schools start building proper theatres again (complete with counterweight sets and a proper fly tower) would be a good thing, but I don't see it happening. I would advocate spending the money on a good large tower, send a couple of teachers on a course in how to put the thing up, and train selected students in how to use it, spend the rest on getting all the lantern stock you have in good order and adding to it. Regards, Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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