CCTV cameras for live video work...

[Stuart91]

I've got a bit of time between Christmas and New Year and this is one of the things that I thought I'd chase up.

 

We do a reasonable amount of IMAG / live video stuff, primarily in a concert setting (as opposed to corporates, for instance). I enjoy having lots of cameras available and have often deployed small camcorders as static cameras, for example pointing down on the drumkit. It's a bit cumbersome and annoying to have to use camcorders for this - especially with their trailing power supplies, annoying adaptors to get to BNC, and remembering which buttons to press to get the on-screen display turned off.

 

What I'm thinking about doing is getting some (relatively inexpensive) CCTV cameras to use for these kinds of tasks. They'll be easier to conceal on stage and will hopefully be less hassle to connect up. Unfortunately I have very little experience of the CCTV side of things. A chat with our local security suppliers didn't help much, as they really struggled to understand the requirements of a live performance.

 

What I guess I'm looking for is a simple CCTV camera that will output a full-resolution (colour) PAL signal. If the picture quality is comparable with an entry-level camcorder, that'll be sufficient for this application. Does anyone out there have any experience of good models to consider? Bonus points if they are small, light, and have a BNC connector on the back. :biggrin:

[jason5d]

we do our static cameras with cctv cams off ebay

you need to spend some time looking through the listings

for the high quality ones

 

you're looking for brand names like sony philips and jvc

[Jivemaster]

I've seen it done but currently PAL TV resolution is on the last knockings of acceptability (IMO) and cctv tend to ba about 480 lines res

 

Look up security cameras on Maplin.co.uk there are a few OK ish ones there inc a varifocal (zoom) one

 

Hit Google for PTZ cameras PTZ = pan tilt zoom

 

What is your budget? I had some good cameras a while ago from the scrap box in tne workshop of a (now gone) security firm

 

Can you do a real life walk round Henry's on Edgeware road -There is no longer a Henry but it is a techno souk with many stalls similar to some shops on Tottenham Court Road.

 

http://www.rfconcepts.co.uk/ptz_dome_camera.htm Is only one of hundreds and I've only just surfed this not used one

[Stuart91]

I've seen it done but currently PAL TV resolution is on the last knockings of acceptability (IMO) and cctv tend to ba about 480 lines res

 

I agree that PAL is really the barest minimum of quality, but we really can't justify the cost of anything better for this particular application. I'm guessing that 480 lines is in comparison to the 576 lines in a standard PAL image? Or am I comparing apples to oranges?

 

The PTZ capability is interesting - I hadn't thought of looking for it, but it could be handy for those occasions where the camera gets nudged or the subject moves. The drawback is that this isn't a permanent installation, it's got to be roadworthy and capable of being set up and derigged as quickly as possible, so having a minimum of three cables to each camera (power, control, video) could be frustrating. Has anyone toured with a setup like this?

[paulears]

Plenty of cheap chinese ones on ebay - small, reasonable quality and so far, reliable. So cheap really as to be kind of disposable.

[boatman]

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I agree that PAL is really the barest minimum of quality, but we really can't justify the cost of anything better for this particular application. I'm guessing that 480 lines is in comparison to the 576 lines in a standard PAL image? Or am I comparing apples to oranges?

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The resolution of a TV camera is measured as the number of line pairs that can be resolved per picture width. For a standard 625 line PAL camera 480 lines is reasonable, but certainly not broadcast quality. There is quite a good article explaining TV camera resolution here, but unfortunately the numbers are based on the 525 Never Twice the Same Color sytem, so you'll need to do a few sums. As the article mentions, horizontal resolution also depends on the aspect ratio and many cameras are now 16:9 instead of 4:3.

[peternewman]

The PTZ capability is interesting - I hadn't thought of looking for it, but it could be handy for those occasions where the camera gets nudged or the subject moves. The drawback is that this isn't a permanent installation, it's got to be roadworthy and capable of being set up and derigged as quickly as possible, so having a minimum of three cables to each camera (power, control, video) could be frustrating. Has anyone toured with a setup like this?

I picked up a fairly cheap Panasonic PTZ of eBay a while ago, its handy for being able to get a variety of shots and always works well slung up in the air somewhere. The main downside of mine is it's auto everything apart from focus, so it can struggle a bit in some event type lighting. I also still need to sort out a case for the camera, however cabling wise, it uses an almost Triax/Biax esque control system, where the PTZ control goes the other way up the same cable that the video from the camera is coming down. You plug the lead from the camera into the controller and it has a standard composite output, so you then just need power and video to it. I imagine hum stop coils would stop the control signals getting through, although I've not really experimented, so you may need to take this into consideration when powering it.

[Jivemaster]

Some satelite dish cables get interesting as they have a coax and a multicore in fig -8 layout usually for steerable dishes. 548-4403 from RS just as an example

 

Go well into CCTV and you will find all sorts of power and control options inc two way digital up one wire pair (or fibre)

 

Just don't lose track of the higher resolution systems which will become a necessity in time.

[mutley]

600 TV lines, high resolution dome camera with Sony CCD, £84.16 at CPC

[boswell]

600 TV lines, high resolution dome camera with Sony CCD, £84.16 at CPC

 

Monochrome !! OP requires colour

[boatman]

Also only 420 lines not 600!!!