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Shoestring budget + ebay: Which desk?


Amorya

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I'm sure you've heard this question many times before...

 

I'm hoping to get into lighting for amateur theatre. My society currently uses a desk like this, which we use with the two sets of presets only: no-one can work out how to programme the thing! (The instructions say "enter the 6 digit recording code", and we don't know what that is.) We use this along with 8 lights, and hire in the whole lot for each performance.

 

I'm trying to buy some stuff of my own. I'm aiming to get some of the LED lights that are cheap on ebay. But I need a desk to go with them.

 

The LED lights take 4 DMX channels each, so I'm looking for a desk that can control such things. If money was no object, I would get a Jester 24ML. (There was one on ebay until a few days ago, but the seller took it down before the end.)

 

I have a budget of about £350, or less if possible. I suppose I could stretch to £400 if it was for something pretty good.

 

I'm currently considering a Pulsar Masterpiece 108 (yes, I've heard that it's nicknamed the disasterpiece), or a GLP Messenger 2. The former looks like it does everything I want, but in a manner entirely dissimilar to other desks. The latter I'm not so sure on: I don't know if I can patch the brightness channel of the LED lights onto the dimmers -- the manual isn't clear about that. But it certainly has a more conventional interface than the masterpiece.

 

Does anyone have any advice? I'm looking for something with room for growth, so I can amass lights to use with it as time goes on. Any suggestions will be welcome.

 

Thanks,

 

Amorya

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Not exactly ideal for theatre though...

 

EITHER

 

I'd suggest either chamsys magic q with a pc wing, or Jands vista. Both of these run from a computer.

MagicQ is free to use with compatible usb-DMX boxes, Jands vista will speak to these but requires a channel license dongle.

Both companies make wings to add real buttons and faders to your setup.

 

OR

 

Keep your eyes out for a cheap used desk.

 

Personally I'd go with the vista for theatre work (having used it on a few shows now, both pc version and the T2).

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Actually, I've just been trying out the MagicQ software. It looks like there'll be a lot of learning curve -- I still haven't figured out how to resize the main window!

 

Sadly my laptop is too old to run the Vista software (it needs an intel Mac), but I'll try it when I'm next in my office and can use the computer there.

 

When using these computer based solutions, are you not scared that a computer crash will disrupt the show?

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I use a separate boot for show work. It has only the software I need for the show, hasn't been muddled around with and doesn't directly see the internet.

 

Coupled with the fact that unless I'm doing something silly my computer doesn't normally crash I feel confident enough to do this.

 

I also use a laptop, which gives me a power backup should there be a brownout.

 

Remember most lighting desks are a computer underneath all those faders! Its how you set it up that counts.

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Having looked at pricing for the Jands system, it seems that a 128 channel dongle and the USB to DMX lead together add up to about £440, which is sadly out of my price range now.

 

Does anyone have any more comments on the two desks I found on ebay?

 

Cheers for your help everyone :P

 

Amorya

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I don't know the pricing of the magicq hardware, but the software is free and a usb DMX box can be had for £70.

 

Re the ebay desks. The masterpiece is a good club/band desk, not sure I'd like to try theatre on it though.

The glp messenger - only 24 dimmer channels... That could get very limiting very quickly, and all I've heard about this desk is that its a pain to understand and the manual is incomprehensible.

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I don't know the pricing of the magicq hardware, but the software is free and a usb DMX box can be had for £70.

 

The basic playback only wing for Magic Q lists at £575 +VAT (does include 1x DMX output so no need for an interface) so even with some discount it's still out of the OP's budget. Also I personally think if you're planning on using Magic Q PC seriously and you'll be re-programming shows often then you really should be looking at the full PC wing but that's way out of budget. It does still make a very powerful console at relatively low cost despite it being out of the OP's budget.

 

Having said that the software is still very usable without a wing, it's just more work to program. If you do decide to go down this route avoid the Enttec Open USB interface and go with the Enttec Pro if you plan on using it for shows as the Open interface is prone to crashing when you least want it too!

 

It's also worth noting that whilst the software is free to download there are a few (and they are few!) limitations to the software unless your using a Chamsys wing or USB interface.

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Actually, I've just been trying out the MagicQ software. It looks like there'll be a lot of learning curve....

 

The thing about the MagicQ is that the learning is worthwhile - not that it's hard, anyway. Not only is it a cheap and accessible solution, it also was born in the same "world" as other pro lighting consoles.

 

Time spent learning the MagicQ means an easier transition onto other "grown up" consoles like the Hog, Grand MA and (to a lesser extent) Avolites for anyone who goes on to use those desks. Learning how to use a Masterpiece... well...not really.

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A good point Rob, although I suspect the learning curve is a little bigger if you've never used a 'real' moving light console before, as I suspect is the case with the OP. But as you say it's certainly worth while and the learning curve is likely to be equally steep on any other console of this level for a newbie.

 

If your interested in learning more about functions which are largely common between consoles (thing's like Palettes/Focuses and Groups), and for general good advice then I would recommend grabbing yourself a copy of "The Automated Lighting Programmer's Handbook" by Brad Schiller.

 

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/0240806026.01.MZZZZZZZ.jpg

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OK - I'm going to do my usual thing and ask a few questions of you before we go further.

 

Firstly - why you?

Is there any reason why you yourself think it's your place to spend money on equipment for an am-dram (university) society? Don't get me wrong - no problem with you spending cash, but surely that's down to the society to invest, not you as an individual...?

 

Next - how many shows do you do?

2 a year? 3?

What sort of show?

Theatre?

Bands?

Musicals?

A mixture?

 

Different desks will suit different genres in different ways, and may not be suitable for other gigs.

 

So unless your uni theatre is stacked out with events that need an all-encompassing desk (which to be frank you won't get for £400!) why not budget properly each time and hire in what's best for each occasion?

 

Just some thoughts.

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OK - I'm going to do my usual thing and ask a few questions of you before we go further.

 

Firstly - why you?

Is there any reason why you yourself think it's your place to spend money on equipment for an am-dram (university) society? Don't get me wrong - no problem with you spending cash, but surely that's down to the society to invest, not you as an individual...?

 

Because I'm interested, really. The equipment will be owned by me. I'll also be able to hire it (and myself, when I'm better at using it!) out for other events, and hopefully bring in some cash. I'm treating it as a hobby I want to get into, and the opera society is a place I can have a bit of practice.

 

Next - how many shows do you do?

2 a year? 3?

What sort of show?

Theatre?

Bands?

Musicals?

A mixture?

 

Different desks will suit different genres in different ways, and may not be suitable for other gigs.

 

Mainly theatre (well, opera, but it's lit the same), and a couple a year.

 

My housemate has expressed interest in me lighting his band, which is of course a totally different genre. However, I think I want a desk that's more at home in the theatre.

 

So unless your uni theatre is stacked out with events that need an all-encompassing desk (which to be frank you won't get for £400!) why not budget properly each time and hire in what's best for each occasion?

 

That is of course something to consider.

 

I know that I don't need to buy this. Our shows won't be lower quality for that. I suppose I sound like many other young upstarts, eager to rush out and spend money. The reason I'm trying to decide this in a rush is actually because my parents offered to pay part of the cost of a desk for a Christmas present for me: they heard I was interested in lighting and wanted to get me some equipment. (If I can't find a desk I'd be happy with in that time, though, I guess I'll put the idea on hold.)

 

If I own my own stuff, I'll be able to practice with it quite a lot, whereas I wouldn't with hire stuff. My housemate runs a dance workshop every week, which he's said he doesn't mind me lighting the band if I want to practice in a live but non-critical environment. I'd be able to bring it to rehearsals for shows too. The hire stuff doesn't get brought out until the tech run. One reason I haven't yet volunteered to be a lighting operator for us is that I don't think I could get it right first time... and a tech run is not the time to be learning and practising.

 

To sum up: I know it's an indulgence, but I want to spend a bit of money on something I'll have fun learning about.

 

Amorya

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I would definately suggest that you look at MagicQ.

If you already have a laptop or PC available then all you need to pay for is a DMX output device. (The software is free to download) There are quite a few options from Chamsys alone, plus several third party ones.

 

Personally I would suggest an Enttec ODE (Open DMX Ethernet) @200 euro or the DMX USB Pro @125 euro; you can only use one USB Pro with MagicQ while the ODE uses Artnet which MagicQ can have upto 12 universes.

 

That would still leave you enough left over to scour Ebay for a used 15" touch screen. (I bought a new 10" one on Ebay for £90, it's only just big enough though)

 

You can use practically all the features of MagicQ, and it is more than capable of all the types of events you could want to do.

Yes, a programming wing with real faders is nice, but you soon learn to use the touch screen almost as well.

 

And if you ever make any money out this game and want to upgrade there are plenty of reasonably priced options to go for.

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You can use practically all the features of MagicQ, and it is more than capable of all the types of events you could want to do.

Yes, a programming wing with real faders is nice, but you soon learn to use the touch screen almost as well.

 

Whilst what you say is entirely true it's worth mentioning that Pan & Tilt control isn't exactly easy without encoder wheels. The only way to do it in the software is to manually increment the values for Pan & Tilt which isn't always the quickest and easiest way. However if you have a Chamsys USB interface or wing connected then it's possible to use your mouse to control Pan & Tilt. If you considering using just the software then it's worth paying the extra (list price is £385) if you can afford it and using the Chamsys USB-DMX interface as it will unlock mouse control along with the other limitations that are in the software without a Chamsys USB device connected.

 

Personally I think you can only get the best out of the software with a PC Wing or even better Maxi Wing coupled with a touchscreen. This is still a fairly low cost option when you consider it's a console thats is more powerful than a Hog II and a pretty good match to the GrandMA & Hog III.

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