Lighting Programming

[Nick LX]

Hi,

I am interested in how big live concerts with lots of intelligent lighting work. Primarily because I have understanding of "still" theatre lighting, and want to expand the knowledge.

 

The problem is, I could ask my theatre manager at school, but he wouldn't know any better. Therefore I'd be interested maybe in a course on programming for live events (like festivals, ESC etc - not those specifically though, but easiest examples to give), or programming intelligent lighting.

 

I can program chases on the Masterpiece with ease, but I am wonder more how big events with upto 200 movers work.

 

Just watching this: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fkKcEgDt4_E&...feature=related, I am intrigued to know how each "cue" is recorded, and played back in time with the music?!

 

If I understand correctly these are the possibilites for the "first" steps:

1) Design on a WYSIWYG

2) Record pallettes with lots of positions/colours/gobos etc

 

I hope you can point me somewhere, or tell me what you know!

 

Thanks

[niclights]

Big shows with large numbers of fixtures work in the same way as small shows with fewer fixtures. Just a matter of scale. The consoles do all the hard work.

 

Programming these is not usually something you are taught, but more something you build up to starting on the smaller events. A natural progression like many things.

 

How and what you program will depend entirely on the console and your operating style/requirements. If you have little prior knowledge of an event and need to busk then you would choose your console and program in a way that gives you the most options and flexibility. In contrast, if you know exactly what must happen and when, then you could program a single cue stack (console capability dependant) and simply execute each change, or even lock it to timecode and have it synchronise automatically with something.

 

Using things like visualisation software combined with offline editors can help save valuable time and allow much of the programming to be done prior to an event.

 

By far the best way to learn more is to get involved in doing it for real at a local venue. Only after you have done a substantial amount of box-pushing, coffee-making, catering, runner(ing!), flyering and, of course, laundry B-)

[Nick LX]

And lots of cable coiling. Yes! I hope to be getting work experience with a lighting designer who works in the professional world (http://www.guyhoare.co.uk/). Above that, I tried to get work experience in my local theatre, but didn't get that far. I guess I will keep on trying. For the moment, I can still practise as much as possible on the masterpiece and 4x scans my school owns.

 

Thanks

[Badger_Mushroom]

What he said. If it's the live rock and roll industry that interests you, you may want to consider doing the Avolites training courses too in Wembley. Start with the Pearl, get the software downloaded and the visualiser and play around. The tutorials are all free to get online too. Although what you have learnt in theatre is invaluable, do open your mind a little to different techniques and be prepared for a change in technical language!

[JDP]

Doing Avolites training in Wembley is a bad idea!!

 

It would be a LOT more beneficial for you to visit their training facilities in Park Royal first and learn the desk.

[showman]

Cheechm, if you are looking for a place where you can get hands-on experience with some moving lights, Avolites desks (along with Strand & ETC desks) and plenty of technical theatre happenings - check out the National Student Drama Festival and consider applying to be on the technical crew B-)

 

National Student Drama Festival - www.nsdf.org.uk

 

I certainly learnt a lot there and lots of experience and skills which have been really useful in getting me lots of freelance work.

 

Cheers.

[Aaron-Hill07]

Where abouts are you from mate?

[MJU]

Hey,

 

If you are looking to do a degree in lighting programming, Central School of Spech and Drama do a production lighting course which is worth a look at, also Rose Bruford College offer a Lighting Programming course, both are BA (Hons) Degree's not sure if this is what you ment!

[AndyJones]

Park Royal and Wembley are right next to each other! I highly recommend the Pearl training course. Not sure on prices But when I did it (about 5 years ago!) its was 25 quid including lunch and a free bag. (Which incidentally has just broken! argggh!)

 

HTH

 

AndyJones

[timmeh2]

Hi

 

I'd also agree that you do the Avo course, as knowing your way around a Pearl is considered to be the 'bare essential' qualification required for a desk op. The first thing someone will ask you is 'Can you use a Pearl.' After that, there's nothing to stop you coming back later and doing the Sapphire or Diamond (the Avo LD's instrument of choice). All their desks work the same way, pretty much, and the skills you learn on one you can quickly apply to another. This is also true for the Hog desks as well. As for GrandMA, well that's a bit more serious, so one step at a time.

 

As an aside I'm not too sure about the 'Degrees in lighting programming' - or whether they'd be worthwhile. Successful LDs and desk ops earn their stars through reputation and networking. Neither myself or any of the people in my circles have any formal qualifications on lighting at all, yet we've been working in the industry for years and will continue to do so. The only training I've ever done is for H&S and various plant licenses.

 

All the best

Timmeh

[JDP]

The first thing someone will ask you is 'Can you use a Pearl.'

 

I think actually the first thing someone will ask is "what experience do you have". Admittedly the answer is the obvious none, as you have never used a desk before, but a LOT of people learn desks to get out of the 'lampy bit'...

 

To be a desk operator or programmer, you need to prove yourself as a lampy first. You should of been in the industry a considerable amount of time, knowing that when people tell you things can't be done there is a genuine reason and you can't kick off, learning your way round dimmers and understanding exactly why the dimmer man can't have all your items in the right order for you to do a complete 1-1 patch and have it all right, learning that climbing truss is a lot harder than it looks and there is a reason why it takes the time it does.....

 

Those are the things off the top of my head and theres many more. I know of a FEW people in their early 20's who have proved themselves as a desk operator/programmer and currently are doing fairly big jobs, BUT they have proved themselves as lampies, done the whole lampy/dimmer man/rigger etc thing and moved onwards and proved themselves as being good, well actually world class in these positions... With that said, MOST LD's and Desk people are in their 30's at least, having had 10 - 15 years experience the other end of the multi before a career progression.

 

Please don't get the wrong idea, by learning a desk, you will never go straight into programming and operating shows because your CV says you know a desk... It takes a LOT of experience in all scales and genres before you can do that.

[Joe Bleasdale]

Just watching this: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fkKcEgDt4_E&...feature=related, I am intrigued to know how each "cue" is recorded, and played back in time with the music?!

 

This show was timecoded, SMPTE I think. It was programmed and played back using HOG 3PC software, and hardware.

[Paul J Need]

there is no simple answer to this simple question I'm afraid as the gig, venue, management, budget, desk, rig, crew,and time etc etc all dictate what you can and cannot do.........

 

So a list you figure out which one applies:

 

-1- You turn up on the day with the band and hope the desk is what you;ve used before and plot some groups, effects etc and busk

-2- You turn up on the day and rig then plot then busk

-3- You turn up on the day and find only 6 pars and no FOH or follows spots and just a 6 way desk (happened to my at St Dennis, Paris Jazz festival)

-4- You design it and the venue rigs to your requirement - you tuin on and plot some groups etc and busk.

-5- You design a rig on WYSIWYG, programme in the comfort of your office for a month and get every cue hammered in to the show while running along a recording of each track.

 

Points 1-4 usualy means you get 2-3 hours plotting time pre-show if you're lucky

I did a show for a band supporting Sting as the SECC Glasgow then on tour - and I was allowed to use 2 LX bars of Sturdio colors, and had 1 hour to plot a 45 minute set on desk I'd never used before...............

 

Fun!

[JDP]

Paul, I ain't no LD. But to program in 2-3 hours of show seems perfectly acceptable to me....

 

No your not going to be able to program and cue like you would an arena tour, but a LOT of LD's I know if you know the show/set/band, you can get a good idea of what they play in the set, put in specifics for certain parts of a song, and then busk the rest....

 

I know of several desk people that would have all that done in 2 hours on a desk they have never used before......

[mrboo]

I really hate turning up and taking over on someone`s programming that not my style of laying out the desk. But I do think every op needs to know how a rig works. as most gig`s I do tend to never have someone just there to sort out bits as the event is on. so if someone pulls a cable or part of your rig trips you need to know fast how to save the gig fast. If you dont understand DMX or power it`s pointless you doing the job as if you lose the lot this can happen you need to know how to get the rig going or know how to get some of it going without calling people and running about looking lost. I once had a mate of a lighting op cover for him as he was going for a smoke. The desk triped so he ran into my room for help so I turned the tirp back on. but about an hour later the power went again. he was secs from turning off the lighting and sound to the room he did not understand how the power works. Even when you just op you need to know the ABC of how it works.