Programming scans and moving heads.

[djsteviec]

I am in the process of programming some scans and moving heads... wait for it... on a MASTERPIECE!!!

 

Anyway, I want to make a few different chases with both scans and moving heads. Can anyone suggest any patterns that will look good and get the best effect from the lights?

 

So far I have the following...

 

Moving head...

1. Figure of 8.

2. 0-100% pan and tilt chase together.

 

Scans...

1. Horizontal Zig Zag

2. Vertical Zig Zag

 

 

Any other suggestions??

 

 

 

Thanks.

Steve.

[tom_the_LD]

It depends on when the chase is going to be used. For example, doing a full panning/tilting, colourchanging, strobe chase isn't going to be very useful in a slow song.

 

It also depends on what the heads are, as different fixtures have different features.

[djsteviec]

We have some Robe moving heads, and some Martin 512's.

 

the colours and strobes are not a problem. I will add the colour chases and adjust the speeds afterwards. I'm just after ideas for positions for the head/mirror. ie. figure 8, zig zag, circle. Are there any other patterns that anyone particularly likes?

[Ynot]

Sorry, Steve, but this really falls into the category of 'how long is that piece of string' again.

 

We have NO real idea of your situation, what else you have at your disposal, what sort of music you're producing for, what positions are available, what size the venue is, what experience you have on the desk, etc, etc, etc.

 

We simply cannot make those decisions here for you - they HAVE to come from you and your take on what the answer to the questions above (and more) are... :)

[djsteviec]

You're telling me that you can't give me some examples of say...

 

(for a scanner, mirror position)

 

top left,

top right,

bottom left,

bottom right,

repeat.

 

which will give a chase of top left to right, then diagonally down to the bottom left. then across to the bottom right and then back to the beginning.

 

or

 

moving head...

 

1.X ------> 2.X

 

 

3.X ------> 4.X (repeat)

 

Above should give a figure of 8 if the slope and speed settings are right

[Pete McCrea]

We could all suggest lots of different things for them to do, but it depends entirely on the room, and the positions of the heads.

 

You're telling me that you can't give me some examples of say...

 

(for a scanner, mirror position)

 

top left,

top right,

bottom left,

bottom right,

repeat.

 

which will give a chase of top left to right, then diagonally down to the bottom left. then across to the bottom right and then back to the beginning.

 

or

 

moving head...

 

1.X ------> 2.X

 

 

3.X ------> 4.X (repeat)

 

Above should give a figure of 8 if the slope and speed settings are right

 

However these could look ###### in your room. That's the problem with these sorts of posts. You've shown you've got imagination by posting the above ideas, why don't you just try those out and any more you have?

[richardtank]

I love Masterpieces, I use a Masterpiece 216 quite alot and it's the first desk I ever used :)

 

In terms of programming your chases it really does depend on where the fixtures are.

 

If you have some fixtures at the back all in a line I like what the Avo Azure calls Tilt Swing where every other head is pointing in the same direction opposite to the one next to it. This works with scans aswell I suppose. We have four Quasar scanners and I've got a chase where they sort of wave horizontally aswell.

The best advice is to just mess around and see what you like!

[Ynot]

You're telling me that you can't give me some examples of say...

<snipped>

 

Not at all.

I could think of dozens of moves and positions and chases....

But those would be based on my experience of fixtures I use in a space I know and can visualise and for numbers I can see/hear at any given time.

[Jamtastic3]

I use a Masterpiece.....

 

I'll get back to you about movements (circling, ramps, ballyhoos) as I'm heading to the place that has the desks there just now.

[KevinE]

Why not watch a retro music show like TOTP repeats or visit your local nightclub for ideas? Have fun into the bargain.

[Jamtastic3]

Ok here goes...

 

Now I've had more experience with scanners so this is based on scanner programming.

 

Some rules though to make things work nicely.

 

- The effects work best of your scans are placed together (facing the same way) otherwise the effects get lost.

- Some effects depend on how your fixtures DMX is mapped

- Using SInE and COS from the Chase Generator will help you achieve many different movement effects.

- I'll explain how to scale down your movement if its spread is too large.

 

Circling: Scans should follow one anothers circling. Key here is to have the same speed rates and directions for both chases.

Scene 1 - All pan informtaion only (100%)

Scene 2 - All tilt information only (100%)

Chase 1 - Scene 1 with SInE Chase Gen, speed at 20, direction >

Chase 2 - Scene 2 with COS Chase Gen, speed at 20, direction >

Programme these into an environment so that both chases activate together. Speeds can change as long as they are both the same speed.

 

Figure of 8: Scans should follow one anothers figure of 8's. Key here is to have your pan chase at half the speed of your tilt chase

Scene 1 - All pan information

Scene 2 - All tilt information

Chase 1 - Scene 1 with SInE, speed at 10, direction >

Chase 2 - Scene 2 with COS, speed at 20, direction >

Programme these into an environment so that both chases activate together.

 

Classic ramp ups: Scans will rise with open shutter, close and snap down to repeat.

Scene 1 - All pan information

Scene 2 - All tilt information with open white/shutter/dimmer (depends on fixtures attribute and percentage)

Chase 1 - Scene 1 with ALT, speed at 10, slope 0, direction >

Chase 2 - Scene 2 with STdn, speed at 20, direction is dependant on where the tilt and shutter attributes fall in the fixtures DMX chart. Try each direction to get the best look.

Programme both chases into an enviroment.

 

Waves - Vertical: Scans will rise and fall in a wave formation

Scene 1 - All tilt information

Scene 2 - Position your scans so that the spread is even ( scan 1 - 35% pan, scan 2 - 65% pan) or are all at 50% pan. Pan info only.

Chase 1 - Scene 1 with SIne, speed can be vaired, direction >

Add the scene and chase into and enviroment.

With this chase you can use other chase gen effects for other effects.

 

Moving fan ins/outs: Scans will follow one behind the other, splitting and coming together around the room.

Scene 1 - All pan info

Scene 2 - All tilt info

Chase 1 - Scene 1 with SInE, speed at 25, direction >

Chase 2 - Scene 2 with COS, speed at 20, direction <

Programme both chases into an environment. Have the tilt speed 5 below your pan speed and have the directions opposing.

 

These effect are possible with moving heads but require more maths, since you have more pan and tilt to deal with.

 

This is how you'd scale a movement down if it's too large:

 

 

Half the Circling movement spread:

Take your chase 1 but run it at 50% from 100%. You are left with 50% pan. You need to HALF this number = 25%

Take your scene 1 and add in that 25%.

In theory your pan movement should be 'centred' (25% pan left, 50% pan movement, 25% pan right).

You need to do this with the tilt chase and scene as well if you want to have a perfect 50% x 50%, centred circling movement.

This is something I gradually learned myself. It's very important and you will need it for doing moving heads because the relation of the pan and tilt are different.

 

So let's try a moving head. From thoery:

Have your pan chase at 30%. This leaves you with 70%. Half this to get 35%.

Add in 35% of the pan scene. Pan is now = 35%-30%-35%

Now have your tilt chase at 30%. Add in 35% of the tilt chase. Tilt should be 35%-30%-35%

Programme into an enviroment and when activated, the moving head SHOULD circle underneath itself.

Then by adding more tilt scene into the enviroment, you can get the circling to face upwards.

 

I don't know if that will work tbh but if you cut out the chase percentage and add in the right amount of scene percentage, you should be able to stop the movement flying all over the place.

 

If no effects work then just use chases with all pan or tilt info only. Play about with adding ALT, FOUR,TRIA, SInE, COS chase effects with one another and change the speed and slopes.

Created static positions (eg Cross over, Inward, all Up) and add a tilt or pan chase to see how it affects it.

 

 

My heads going to burst now.....

[djsteviec]

Thank you so so so much Jamtastic. That was exactly what I was after. I'm just about to print it off and go for a play. ** laughs out loud **.

 

 

Thanks.

Steve.

[Jamtastic3]

How did you get on? Any interesting effects with the heads?

 

Like I say, you don't have to have the same amount of pan and tilt spread but to get the circle movement, the spread should be the same for both X and Y movements. One movement could be panning 40% (30%-40%-30%)and tilting 50% (25%-50%-25%), meaning you'll get a more vertical movement. Or panning at 80% (10%-80%-10%) and tilting at 10% (45%-10%-45%) and you'll get a very horizontal movement. This is clearer to see with scanners though.

 

If the circling (or any other movement) needed to be higher off the ground, then add in more tilt and change your maths:

 

Pan chase at 50% should always be centred as before (25%-50%-25%)

Tilt chase at 50% but add in 40% of the tilt scene instead of 25%. The overall ratio is now (10%-50%-40%). The 10% being as far up you can get the mirror, so this means the tilt movement is now tilting above it's centre ratio and you've added 90% of tilt (chase and scene) with 10% left until the movement is at maximum tilt angle.

 

I'm hoping this makes sence. I can't explain it any other way really, as it's taken me a lot of head scratching and trial and error to work it out myself!

[djsteviec]

hi.

 

I havent had a chance to try them out properly yet. Got some DMX issues that Im trying to sort out. I have posted another thread askign for help. ** laughs out loud **

 

but I will let you know as soon as I have had the chance to have a go at it.

[Martijn de Groot]

There you go, fisrt worry about your equipment to get it up and running, than try to make some nice looking scenes with it, that should be the right order to work.

I dislike questions like; can you give me colornumbers to have our stage look beautiful, or, who knows keystrokes for perfect working chases.

That is where creativity comes in, that is where you have to make the dicisions for your self, depending on the dimensions of the area, the scenery build in there, the act it is ment for, the wishes of a director, players, places where the audience are sitting, to many parameters for others to give answers.

And also think of this, many people spend years to learn how to do this, it is not the right way to put them out of bussines by doing these jobs yourself, depending on knowhow from them. Better find a job which gives you enough money to pay trained professionals to do this for you.