12 channel lavelier mic systems

[casey1202]

Hi I am currently working with a theatre group and I do the lighting and music for them. They have asked me to do the sound which I am happy to do and I know I can do a good job. But they have 12 principle parts which means miking them all up.

This is daunting as I have never worked with as many radio systems. So help and advice is required.

.What system should I use (money is tight)

.should I be scared or is this easy enough

 

m. :)

[Dmills]

You will need to license some extra channels (I would license the lot on dedicated channels just to be sure) and you will need good gear == the expensive stuff.

 

You must calculate a set of channels that are intermod free or you will be in hell, trust me, this is not like running 3 or 4 radios, with twelve doing the math is not optional (There are spreadsheets available to help with this).

Do you have someone to babysit the receivers, do mike swaps and generally deal with the 'stage' end of the gig? It is pretty much vital if you are going to run this number of mics with any sort of reliability.

 

On the mixing side, have you mixed radio mic happy shows before? You really do end up mixing literally line by line some of the time (comb filtering issues).

I would personally push to reduce the number of radio mics involved, especially if there is limited budget as you are looking at a LOT of money to make this work. If I had to do this, I would be demanding SK50 class radios.

 

Finally don't forget to budget for changing the batteries every show.

 

I figure this is in the region of a £2,000 per week proposition just to hire the radio kit.

 

Regards, Dan.

[Bobbsy]

To do 12 channels you will need to venture into the licensed "UK Shared" frequencies but any reputable rental house can provide the gear and license as a package. They should also be able to give them to you pre-tuned to intermod-free, legal frequencies. This side of things shouldn't be a problem (other than persuading the "committe" to part with the money!).

 

A few operational points though:

 

First, getting 12 mics mounted on the right actors and soundchecked takes time. I don't know how you normally work but I'd probably insist on an "A2" backstage to do the installation of mics (and also handle any swaps you plan in). Work with them on the first couple of times and agree an exact position and mounting system for each actor, then stick to that. The backstage person can also help out if anything goes wrong mid-show--the more mics you use the more chance you'll have of one failing.

 

In cost terms, don't forget to budget for sufficient batteries. This amount can add up.

 

Insist on some time at tech to check each mic channel/actor individually to set gain, EQ etc. Also insist on at least one song from each performer to check things...every song is even better.

 

Be prepared to actually "mix" the show. You can't just turn on 12 mics and go--carefully mark up your script with entrances, exits, level changes for solos vs. ensemble pieces etc. You should pretty well know the show by opening night...but a script is a good aide memoire.

 

Have fun. When it sounds good it'll all be worthwhile.

 

Bob

[paulears]

Doing multi-mic radio operating is a challenge, but quite rewarding when it goes right. The real snag is the possibility of errors increase at a silly rate as you add more mics.

 

For me, I find being prepared for entrances fairly easy - it's exits that get me - especially in the big busy scenes where people are coming and going, and you look at the faders and realise you have more mics open than there are people on stage - panic time. As people have said, a system is required. I've tried laptops and spreadsheets, colour coding and all sorts of script markings - what works for me is this:

 

Mark the script with the entrances, or just prior to 'words' when they've been on stage silent - so in the margin +6+9 indicated 6 and 9 need to be open, -7 would indicate that person has either finished and staying on, or about to exit. I usually write at the top of each page the mics open as an aide-memoire so 1-3-6-9 lets me do a quick visual check ofg the faders - if 5 is still up, I have missed an off cue somewhere. Where a sequence of ons or offs occurs, I write the numbers vertically with a line linking them. Dmills mentioned comb filtering - there will be places in some scenes where people are grouped together and their open microphones add together in a destructive way and sound horrible. I'll mark up the script to show where these happen, and work out a solution - sometimes using the mic on the quietest person to pick up 2 or 3 people - maybe with the others either ducked a little, a lot, or sometimes even off! This will be different each night as they stand in slightly different places, so keeps you on your toes.

 

My most common mistake is missing the first couple of words after an entrance - usually by getting distracted and losing the place in the script. No excuses - my fault.

 

I've tried automation - basic things like midi muting, and scene storing, but it doesn't really work for me because I don't have the same levels every show, and fighting with a fader on a more basic memory aided desk is a pain. The best trick I've ever used was replacing the fader caps with coloured ones. Script has matching colours so -5 with a yellow background means finding mic five on the fader strip much easier than reading '5'.

 

probably worth mentioning that I always mark up the faders with the character names, never their real ones. Gain structure wise, I always have the 'normal' open level for each mic at the same place on each fader.

[mal421]

I have just finished a show that used 7 headset radios , 4 hand held radios plus 6 wired mics . Make sure you do spend time getting the frequencies right , selecting frequencies by distance apart within the spectrum may not be sufficient because it doesn't take into account harmonics . Sennheiser have a software download that will help . I found having a complete script with lyrics a great help and attending all the rehearsals will allow you to make comprehensive notes to supplement the script . It took 6 of us to run the sound , 3 changing mics , 1 babysitting the receivers and 2 manning the desk and FOH . I did it all on an analogue desk , which involved lots of sustained concentration . Today I am buying a digital desk which should make life easier next time .

Finally just to reiterate you cannot run this number of radios on unlicenced frequencies .

[Bobbsy]

Mal421, you're making things complicated and scary where they don't need to be. Any decent make/model of radio mic can fit 12 frequencies within the UK general licence (or certainly this plus the deregulated). Any reputable rental house should be able to give you the mics, license and frequency plan you need for 12 channels...and if they don't/can't then find somebody else to rent from.

 

Yes, I use the Sennheiser SIFM software when I need to use large numbers of mics, but 12 channels should be "off the shelf".

 

Paulears: Sounds like you and I have very similar methods of marking up a script for mic use. The one extra thing I'd add is that I give myself a standby cue on the previous page where an entrance is at the top of the next one (if you see what I mean). On duets, trios or whatever, I also tend to put a little mic number in a circle by each line or stanza, along with a rough note of level where something needs a boost or cut--mixing is actually done by ear obviously, but a "-6" or "+3" gives me an idea of what direction things are going.

 

Bob

[paulears]

Odd Bob and I seem to be on similar ground - Mal421 - Buying a digital desk - is not the solution. Frankly, I'm amazed it took you so many people. My pro shows rarely have budget for a sound team of more than two people - so one out front and one on stage is the norm. 6 seems overkill, and to be honest if it took that many, I'd be worried. Somebody 'babysitting' the receivers - what a dull job. What on earth were they doing. If it was looking at RF levels and looking for problems that's normal, but this person would then sort the problem, surely?

 

The problem with digital desks is that they make it easy to recall settings, and handle changes on cue - but sound in a live show rarely works like that. You push a fader until it sounds right - NOT where it was yesterday. fair enough, it will be close, but not the same, and the point at which it comes up is often different. Let's say faders 2 and 4 come up as they make an entrance, but person 4 is late - with automation, as soon as the cue point arrives, up they go, leaving you to realise the second person isn't there, and frantyically find the fader to pull it down again, and hoping you didn't just treat the audience to the actor on their way in a panic - "get out the way, get out the way......." Automation to some degree is useful, so eq changes, effects etc - very handy - but mixing radios is very much an observational thing, with a response controlled by the ears. Two people on the desk isn't a problem - I'm assuming one on mics one on the rest.

 

One other tip I have used in shows where characters share mics and there's loads of swapping is to cut thin card strips that can lay above the faders that get changed as the show progresses - so the script gets marked with a change strip message, and one set of names gets replaced with the next.

 

 

For many amateur shows where they don't have huge budgets, I've mixed the show on my own, and used stage management to sort out emergency problems - no dedicated audio people on stage at all. A huge sound team to me just makes things far to complicated and unless these people are all good, a bit pointless I would have thought?

[Biskit]

The one extra thing I'd add is that I give myself a standby cue on the previous page where an entrance is at the top of the next one (if you see what I mean).

 

I also do this, and find it helps a lot. If you are 'script following' line by line, a good habit to get into is every time you turn the page, have a quick peek at the page after as well, just so you can get yourself prepared calmly if there is a complicated sequence of sound effects, mic adjustments etc coming up.

 

I also do this when doing a lighting op... but these days it is less necessary with memory consoles! Obviously sound is a bit different in that even with clever digital desks and careful programming, live adjustments will always be required.

 

Just my 2p!

 

Ben.

[Trunker]

A little OT, but do everyone change the batteries in radio mics every show? In my Sennheiser 300's they don't even drop to two bars (out of three) after the first show. Are we being rather careless to the enviroment when we could get 2 shows out of the batteries? Just my 2p, please don't have a hand-bag fight over it.

[Shez]

I regularly run 12 radios (+ playback, band, floats etc) on my own. If I can get a No.2 op to look after things backstage, great, but that's not always possible. Any problems are communicated to the SM who gets things sorted. Planning is definately key - get a script as early as possible and keep in touch with the director about cuts.

 

The last one I did was with G2 500s; we ended up using daewoo branded batteries from the local pound shop. I'd trialled some on the previous show to see how they lasted; we got three shows per set out of them. Given the option, I'd rather just use them for two, but when the producer is really counting the pennies that's not always an available luxury.

[paulears]

For shows where a flat battery isn't considered a major problem (decide yourself what constitutes a problem), then by all means squeeze two shows out of a set. Where it comes unstuck is when the two shows are separated, by an 'off' period. My experience is that off isn't actually off and trying to economise has meant one dies during Act 2. I'm really not sure this is acceptable. Certainly the 2000 or so in a box waiting for panto seem a pretty expensive item that could be eeked out, but is it worth the risk. I'd say no - but using this topic as an example, I guess with somebody keeping an eye on RF level and battery condition at the receivers, you could try to head off battery issues before they become critical? At least AAs are cheaper than 1604s.

[Bobbsy]

As Paulears says, whether you "stretch" you battery use depends largely on what the consequences of failure would be. A small town Amdram or school production is a different animal from a theatre show where the audience has paid £80 a ticket--or a corporate event where the CEO of a billion pound company is speaking.

 

The other thing I'd throw is in how well you know the gear in question. I used to have multiple channels of Sony "Freedom" mics and I soon learned that a Duracell or Procell would always give around 11 hours...and that the battery warning light gave me about 20 minutes notice. Given the 11 hour life, once a show was running I'd often do two shows per battery. As an aside, I'll add that "pack management" was always done by me or somebody I trusted, never left to the cast.

 

Re: digital mixers, I find that they "play nicely" with large number of radio mics but not necessarily for the reasons people assume. I will use the memory presets to control muting/unmuting for big scenes (though instead of the actual mute I programme in a fast fade up/fade down to a level slightly lower than the starting point I want. However, the big plus is that I can automate a change of EQ to match up with mic swaps...and even re-route channels so the two singers in the Act 1 duet are on adjacent faders....then moved elsewhere when something else is more important.

 

Bob

[Shez]

I should perhaps add that I have the receivers at FOH and keep an eye on them myself. I've never had a battery die on me in use, and that's a record I don't plan on ever tarnishing. I've seen it happen to other people and it's not pretty! Picking a brand of battery and trying it out to see how long you can get out of them, and at what point the battery indicators change is a useful thing to do.

I did used to change them after every show a few years back but when the meter hasn't even moved it did seem a bit of a waste. With the combination of transmitters and batteries that I use on a regular basis, I'm happy to run two shows with them. Particularly long shows might prompt a rethink of course. Packs are always switched off (by me!) between an afternoon matinee and evening show.

Bobbsy's comments on the type of show are very true of course. Speeches by VIPs or whatever will always get a fresh set of batteries.

I do get paranoid about these things and won't take risks.

[Ynot]

What show are you doing?

Do ALL of the principals need mics ALL of the time?

Because I seriously doubt that they all will and would suggest that you spend some time at rehearsals with a script and then with the director to work out which performers are essentials and which are 'extras' - that way you decide whether there are some who can share one or more mics. Whilst that can give minor problems with different mix settings, it does save cash on mic hire and battery costs.

 

My small am-dram venue owns 11 mics and has access to a further 3 - all Senn EW100 (mix of G1 and G2). We don't often run all 14 (which we're licensed for) but when we do have very few problems.

 

It can get tricky - think the most I've personally opp'd is 12 or 13, and I have to say I use a script marking system similar to Paul's. I have wondered whether it would be worth having a script-reader in purely for mics for big shows like this, but have never tried the idea as yet.

 

Batteries - again a topic that's been done to death in here before - my own summation would be use quality batts - many here use Duracell Procell - and you should get 2 performances easily from each set. (The EW G2s woth 2 x AA seem to last better than the G1' with PP3). That said, any appreciable break between shows and a new set gets used every time.

(Don't forget to use all the part-used batts for rehearsals)

[cedd]

Having only worked smaller budget shows, where pack swaps are inevitable, I'd suggest taking the middle ground and using one pack, but 2 capsules. You can fit the mics themselves before the show and then your no'2 (or at a push the member of cast) can make the swap of beltpack easily without the need for tape.

As others have said, knowing your kit is the best way of sussing out battery life. I get 2 shows comfortably out of my UHF kit, but only one from my VHF. I'm not brave enough to try for any longer!

Don't buy cheap batteries. There has been another thread on them though.

 

You'll be kept on your feet with 12, but it's not impossible. I've mixed 14, split over 2 12 channel desks and apart from the odd hairy multiple entrance/exit, all went fine. Sometimes groups can be your friend for multiple entrances. Assign your group of mics to a subgroup and use that as a submaster. As long as you're careful with setting up levels, you can then switch them all to "Mix" once they're in. You can then switch mics to the open group, ready for a mass exit. It's very easy to tie yourself in knots though. Far easier to have a rule of "don't talk offstage for 5 seconds after you exit) and switch them all off individually.

This is only really the case when you have more radio mics leaving or entering than fingers!