Recreating a plane crash

[adamcoppard]

Having not recieved a script yet (at least I've been notified well in advance), we have to create two effects for our school play this year (both have to be done twice, so, something that works twice (we don't mind buying two props, or two sets of pyro, but)).

Before I continue to say what effects we need: Nobody in our school (apart from me who can tell a little), can understand pyrotechnics.

No adults can fire pyrotechnics (I'm in year 10 in charge of sound and lighting), so, we may need to etiher get someone trained (talking about training, am I allowed (for age reasons) to go to the Stage Electrics pyro at The Octagon Theatre).

 

So, onto the effect: We need a plane to crash on stage (some form of reckage, maybe coupled with a lighting blind and black out), and also, with people sitting around, a radio, or other similar device to explode. Now, by explode, I don't know if we mean fire, or just breaking, or sparks and actually have it blow up, so.

 

How can effects similar to this be created, and/or, am I legally allowed to, order, rig, fire and control the pyrotechnics over the whole scenario, or must someone be trained?

[paulears]

If you search this section of the forum, you will find this comes up over and over again.

 

Nope - you cannot do it, you are not old enough. The people who are old enough, but have no experience are allowed - but incredibly stupid if they do it by just hiring the kit and buying pyros.

 

The usual advice is that explosions are not required. Dramatically, you simply cannot crash a plane on stage, even if the set is just the internal compartment - realistically. In fact without a decent budget, your drama goes out of the window as people will chuckle. What you can do is do the crash up to the point of impact - lights out, really big sound effects - maybe some strobes fired off to disorientate the audience - in the black out, people do a quick 'distress' on stage, making the after impact state. Add smoke and restore the lighting. Much better visually.

 

 

Remember the idea of things going bang close to the actors may scare them to death, the fall out from the devices is nasty - and finding places to set them up where they would look good and be safe is a problem. In addition, very often they look simply poo! The problems with pyro often outweight the results.

[Brian]

...talking about training, am I allowed (for age reasons) to go to the Stage Electrics pyro at The Octagon Theatre)...

No, it's over 18s only.

[Alpha]

No adults can fire pyrotechnics (I'm in year 10 in charge of sound and lighting), so, we may need to etiher get someone trained (talking about training, am I allowed (for age reasons) to go to the Stage Electrics pyro at The Octagon Theatre).

 

Belive me you may think your incharge, but when the proverbial crap hits the fan who takes the responsibility. At the end of the day you have no legal standing in the school to take responsibility and you are too young.

 

If a teacher is willing to be trained then thats an option, however have you even got permission from the head teacher and also had the insurance checked for cover?

 

So, onto the effect: We need a plane to crash on stage (some form of reckage, maybe coupled with a lighting blind and black out), and also, with people sitting around, a radio, or other similar device to explode.

 

 

Now, by explode, I don't know if we mean fire, or just breaking, or sparks and actually have it blow up, so.

 

Belive me if people are sitting around something, your not going to be blowing anything up, or most likely setting anything on fire on stage. Simple but effective, find an old radio, take it apart, put it back together spring loaded with a quick release and some sound effects. If your really convinced you need pyro, then a flashpot will do, this is a school production at the end of the day not the west end.

 

How can effects similar to this be created, and/or, am I legally allowed to, order, rig, fire and control the pyrotechnics over the whole scenario, or must someone be trained?

 

See above for similar effect. Your not old enough to purchase, rig, control or do anything with pyro or explosives, further more I'd be fairly confident in saying unless someone has paid for some insurance for you. That you are not supposed to be rigging any lights with a ladder or scaff either.

 

Plane Crash

Blinders are an option although personally I hate them, Nothing worse than having a bunch of Par's flashed in your eyes and then having to wait for your eyes to readapt.

 

If I were to be staging it for a school (with budget in mind) I woud

1) Soundeffect of plane sounding a bit broken

2) blackout (at this point the stage crew can lay down some wreckage)

3) make the sound effect more intense

4) if your set on it flash some blinders (stage crew off before this point) maybe some smoke.

5) lights up

 

Edit: Spelling (yes theres probably more) & more words

[adamcoppard]

Righty ho, so it's a no to any form of pyrotechnics then (the only teachers who would want to learn simply don't have the time to).

 

So, onto the effects of a radio falling to pieces (literally), and the plane crash. I think that, the whole story may be based around the plane crashing, as it set's the scene, so, the idea of starting and going striaght to black out doesn't appeal to me, if it was at the very start, then I wouldn't like the reckage and a load of haze being stuck in the room as people walk in and be social (most parents turn up a good 45 mins before starting time). If it's in the middle, then, yes, reckage, etc, lights can be used. The only problem is stage people going onto the stage without being heard (we'll cross that bridge when we come to it).

As for the radio, even though falling apart has been suggested, I do beleive that it is exploding with some from of sparks etc, so someway around that would be nice (maybe a piece of iron wool?).

[Alpha]

As for the radio, even though falling apart has been suggested, I do beleive that it is exploding with some from of sparks etc, so someway around that would be nice (maybe a piece of iron wool?).

 

Ok this is guna bug me and probably a few others around here so I'm going to explain to you now. You are not actually going to explode a radio, you are going to make it appear to have exploded in a safe way.

 

There are two stages to the effect.

 

1) The destruction of the radio - You can NOT physicaly explode a radio on stage, its NOT safe. The way this wil need to be done is with some form of trigger system, hence why I suggested spring loading it.

 

2) The auxillary visual effect - personaly I dont like the idea of iron wool because thats just creates the potential for a real fire, bad times. The only real safe way would be to use something like a small robotic but if you dont have someone who knows what they are doing or can be trained I dont see how your going to et anywhere with that either.

[paulears]

Don't forget that whoever wrote the play, would have to have a way of staging it. Very few people have the resources to blow things up, on cue every night - so wait till you get the script and see how it's done. Remember that many plays don't have what you might 'think' they must have. So no train in the Ghost Train, no ship vanishing below the waves in Titanic, or lava running across the stage in Krakatoa (alright - I made that one up!), but you get the idea - it's acting, not effects.

 

The spring loading system Alpha mentions is age old - magicians have used it for years. Imagine a cube. All edges hinged with spings to force them open and out. A pin hold the last one shut. Inside you can have lots of loose 'works', and some powder, chalk or talcum type. Pull the pin and it explodes on cue - and can be used again and again - which you cannot do with real pyros. Joe Pasquale had a gag in his act a few years ago where he needed a radio to explode. He tried blowing one up with pyros and it was spectacularly dull - pyros go flash, produce smoke, melt the plastic and are not spectacular at all - unless you use big ones - and today, with risk assessment, the unpredictability makes it far too dangerous to even contemplate without specialist skills. Pyro people are making visual effects - demolition companies blow things up!

[Bryson]

I've been in the audience for one of the best ever plan crashes onstage that I've ever seen.

 

It was by a company called Shunt - the show was partially about the "Alive" story.

 

The audience was actually sat in airline seats, under a barrel-shaped canopy that gave you the feeling of being in a plane. They extinguished all of the lights (these were the days when you could still get away with that) and played the loudest and most awesome set of sound effects I have ever heard. It was terrifying. Then, as the sound died away, we sat in silence and darkness for a long time, until in the distance, a light came on. They had removed the canopy in the darkness, and you were suddenly in a huge open space.

 

I guess my point is that there are ways and means of depicting and really involving an audience in a "disaster" event without going fully literal, or spending a lot of money. The audience will fill in the visuals you can't afford to depict onstage if you give them the cues to do so.

[karl]

Don't forget that whoever wrote the play, would have to have a way of staging it.

I'm not totally convinced that they always do. Some writers seem to love setting impossible challenges and not providing any hints how they think it might be done! And why in these circumstances do people always seem to say "Oh, lighting can take care of that."?

 

As has been said pyro's aren't the answer, they just won't live up to what people expect a plane crash to be like (based on films, news coverage, etc.). Far better to provide an environment where the audience imagines the crash.

 

The spring loaded box trick for the radio can be really effective, a local group used the same trick for an exploding clock. Box full of cogs, etc. and a spring loaded face sitting on a mantelpiece. Triggered from behind the set by a push of a rod, the face flew off and workings spewed out. For a radio maybe add sound effect off crackling, buzzing and a loud crack which signals the trigger to be deployed.

[adamcoppard]

Forgive me, but a spring loaded mechanism for firing the radio needs some form of pulling out / pushing a button, to set the whole effect off? Unless we have a member of cast to actually press the button (and not get hit), then it doesn't work. We do not have an area for stage crew to pull / push anything (a big brick wall behind the back of stage). So, could something like this have a cog inside it, which stage crew set off about a minute before the effect is needed, put it on stage, and leave it, or, do we need to write in someone with googles to come and set off the radio?

[paulears]

There's a small flaw in the argument here. Somebody will either have to pull a pin out with fishing line, or use a solenoid to fire it electrically. I'd use a solenoid - after all, you'd have to find a way to hide the pyro cable in the original idea?

[karl]

I've been wondering about this, when you say the radio has to explode do you mean literally as in violently fragment with bits going everywhere or do you mean stop working in a dramatic way? The spring loaded method will certainly achieve the former. However I can't remember seeing an electrical appliance fail in quite such a dramatic way.

 

The stuff I've seen break usually either does nothing (other than stop doing what it should) or maybe emits a small phut sound or a flash or even a tiny puff of smoke. Having the radio literally fragment will certainly make the point that it is broken but may look a bit unrealistic or even comic. It depends what effect you are after, the exploding clock I mentioned was in a farce and therefore being ridiculous was just what was required.

[Jamtastic3]

Bryson's experience sounds like the best approach to this dilema:

 

If you are setting the disaster scene after a normal scene (for instance people getting on the flight, sitting down, dialogue etc) you could have the whole stage plunged into complete blackout, with sound effects panned left and right of say your main characters screaming, asking what's going on as well as the captain on the radio and the plane nose diving - any dialougue that keeps the blackout long enough for a complete set-up for the next scene. The sound effects would have to be loud and as the plane crashes, become more intense.

Then explosion (which could involve some sort of cheesey side strobing or blinders in the crowd).

By this point, on stage, your crew should have set the wreckage scene and the stage given a good blast of smoke (we're talking fairly smokey, but only if it doesn't hang in the air for a long time)

 

After the explosion FX, complete silence for several seconds then gradually fade your scene up, darker than before and light coming from slightly unusual angles (barndoored or dappled, unfocused lights). Coughing from certain characters as well as moaning and screams perhaps.

 

I think that the best way to 'blow up' the radio would be to not have it blow up, but have a sound FX of buzzing or broken voices so it sounds like you can't get a signal or the batteries have died.