Ryote Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 Hi guys, trying to get a bit of input here. I work for a local council run venue we have had some shows pulled due to unforseen circumstances or by the performers due to low ticket sales. Both myself and my staff (myself on a contracted 37hr week) and casual staff (who turn down other work to work here) have been told that any hours lost due to pulled performances would have to be made up. I'm interested to know how this works in other venues about the country maybe even get some policy documents regarding this. Many Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.elsbury Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 At one of the venues that I work at (in NZ) all calls are confirmed a week before. If a show is pulled within that week, we are still paid for the call. That is for casuals, not sure how it works for regular staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 I work for a council venue, too (although it's a little more autonomous than most, due to its size). Like you, I'm on a 37-hour contract. If I was scheduled to work on a show which was then cancelled, and that show would've formed part of my core hours, I'd have to make the hours up doing something else (wouldn't be a problem, there's always far too much to do!). If any cassies were booked for the show, and it was cancelled more than 24 hours beforehand, their call would be cancelled. That's the nature of casual employment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryote Posted September 27, 2008 Author Share Posted September 27, 2008 Its interesting to hear this as I think some sort of regulated contract between employee and employer should be written down for this sort of scenario. I know one local venue operates a minimum 4 hr call, and I would assume anything over 24hrs notice could be cancelled, but a couple of hours before a performance, should some gratuity be given ie 4 hrs in northern ireland I'm finding it harder and harder to secure staff of any quality or experience and harder to keep the good ones on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 It would be nice to have this sorted, but in anything othr than a TMA venue - it's all down to what can be agreed locally. Certainly at my own privately owned venue - any show pulled (as in today's, two weeks ago) means no pay for anyone other than the single hourly paid Stage Manager on a full-time contract. Front of house staff and backstage hourly paid venue casuals just don't come in, don't clock in and therefore don't get anything at all. The two of us who are freelance are in exactly the same position. The venues perspective on this is that if a show is pulled, it will already have cost them money, so there is no way in the world they are paying out for staff who won't be coming in. As for paying people like me who don't get the minimum hourly rate, but stick in (to them) masive invoices, forget it! No way they'd pay me for no work done. If I pushed for it, based on work turned down elsewhere, they would probably pay my invoice, and delete me from the system - never to be used again. We have no systemic maintenance programme, not even any housekeeping time - anything that gets done is down to essentials only, and other work that's really required must be squeezed in during a normal call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biskit Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 I also work in a local authority venue and we've had a similar issue recently. For example, if a Saturday show is cancelled on Thursday of that week, I might already have had a day off on Monday because I was due to cover the Saturday. This then leaves me a full day worth of hours down that week, not to mention Saturdauy and late working enhancements. Unfortunately the official line has been 'sorry but thats the nature of the game', however I agree that it is something which need resolution. Ben. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 If that situation (I was scheduled to work a show on Saturday, it would've formed part of my core hours, and the show was cancelled a couple of days before), I'd have two options - I could take Saturday as a day's leave, or I could come into work as scheduled and get on with other stuff. To be honest, I'd probably do the latter - I'd have been expecting to work the Saturday anyway, and days like that (with no-one much around) are normally good days for knuckling down and getting stuff done without distractions or diversions. Of course, it might be the case that only part of the day would've been core hours, with the rest taking me into overtime - in which case I'd just come in and do as many hours as I needed to in order to make up my core 37, and then bugger off home! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biskit Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 I could come into work as scheduled and get on with other stuff. In our case, this was exactly the suggestion made by our management. The problem was, however, that as soon as the event was canceled, the building caretakers (with permission from their manager) re-arranged their own schedules for that day and worked early morning instead of late. Thus the building wouldn't actually be open at the times my colleague was scheduled to work (2pm-10pm). He already had personal plans for the morning so ended up losing the hours. I guess all they could do it take a deposit from hirers to cover staff hours and withhold it in the event of late cancellation. There are two problems though: 1. this would require very high level approval (ie cabinet), as the Council have recently resolved to give easier access to our venues through lower charges, less red tape, etc. and 2. it would mean paying people not to work, which would open up a major can of worms within the organisation, especially given the current 'single status' plans which all local government workers will be familiar with! Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 If that was the case, then the fault lies in the breakdown of management communication. If your colleague was prepared to come in to work the hours as scheduled, and was physically unable to do so because the building was locked, he shouldn't have been penalised for that. If I were him, I'd be getting in touch with my union rep ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 Could I ask both Gareth and Biskit (and others on with contracted hours for that matter) what happens if you don't do your contracted hours in the week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 The usual contractual arrangement should cover this. If the council have proper contracts - even my hopeless venue have those! - then the usual thing is that the venue rarely cancel a show, they leave it to the visiting company to cancel it. This is always the cheapest option. They normally allow the venue to recoup expenses paid out for things like advertising, or possibly set and scenery hire that cannot be cancelled. My own venue could charge the staffing costs, including contracts entered into (like mine) for the cancelled shows. My venue don't actually do this, not being wise to what some of the wording really means. I'm surprised council venues haven't sussed this one out - they're normally very clued up on costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Edwards Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 (I am the only full time contracted member of staff at my venue. Commercially run as a facility, college owned and used as teaching space daytime) If a show is pulled (never by us anymore) at my venue, this usually means that I get a weekend off! Yay In 3 years, I have never exactly worked my contracted weekly hours in any given week. If find the 'unpredictability' can work both ways though. I enjoy the luxury of being able to wake up and decided that I can't be bothered to go in today. I know that at some point within the coming months I will work several 70 hour weeks to cover all the events going and make it up. If I don't take 'toil' in advance I end up accruing over 2 weeks by the end of Panto. If I then take all this time off in the New Year I miss out on being able to get any maintenance etc. completed when the venue is dark. Our casuals have never been been paid for cancelled shows; they have never asked. Our FOH staff are volunteer, despite cancellations they still keep coming back; seeing shows for free is too good to turn down I suppose. The whole casual system is supposed to be adhoc. That is why it is there; to enable businesses to cover dynamic demand. If we start to pay people for work they haven't done because the demand has reduced after a pre-defined short notice date, which would mostly be the case, then this could no longer be classed as casual. They would essentially be part time contracted, albeit short term. Then the employer absolutely has the right to expect you to work the hours that have been set out. Any contract that I have seen has caveats to the main duties and expectations stating they reserve the right to alter or cancel shifts at short notice. If it didn't work like this, then many venues (or similar businesses) would not be able to operate. In terms of contracted, you can't really expect to get paid for work that doesn't happen (with the exception of things like your place of work burning down etc.). You may have been down to perform some simple maintenance on a particular peice of kit in service but before you could do, it irrepairably fails. You wouldn't expect to sit about doing nothing during the time because that was what you were supposed to do. I know the time frames are different but the principal is the same for cancelled shows. It is unfortunate that pulling shows due to audience figures is becoming more prevalent and casuals (and contracted) are being messed about. However, if we as technicians start demanding payment for pulled shows and/or retainers then we may end up with no job at all as venues cut back or indeed go under. Remember staffing is by far the biggest expense of any business and it's not just the wages; there are a whole host of other costs incurred like PPE, uniform, health surveillance, wages processing, NI contributions, funds transfer and for larger organiasations pensions and healthcare. Drew. (Edit: grammar) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Could I ask both Gareth and Biskit (and others on with contracted hours for that matter) what happens if you don't do your contracted hours in the week?It happens very rarely! But if it gets to the end of a week and I find I'm short of hours, I could decide to take a half day of leave ... or I might have some WTD hours owing from previous weeks that I can balance it out with. Or, unofficially of course, I might just fudge the hours on my timesheet knowing that I'll make up for it elsewhere (perhaps an extra hour or two the following week). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biskit Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Could I ask both Gareth and Biskit (and others on with contracted hours for that matter) what happens if you don't do your contracted hours in the week? Due to the nature of the work we do, myself and my colleagues work flexi-hours where our actual worked hours are recorded on a time sheet, and a running total kept. Actual hours will be more-or-less the same as scheduled hours, but eg. if I'm scheduled to work 2-10 but the show over-runs, I may claim until 10.30. Similarly if I get called to another venue or asked to come in early at short notice, extra hours are accrued. The result is that we are usual a significant number of hours in credit compared to what we're 'supposed' to have worked. We are supposed to 'use up' this extra time by going home early when we're not busy. In practice this is rarely possible, so we use the banked hours to have a day off here and there without eating into holiday entitlements and also, increasingly, to cover for canceled events! If push came to shove and I had no hours in credit at all, I'm actually allowed to go up to 7.5 hours (ie 1 day) into debit hours, on the proviso that this is made up asap. Might all change with single status though! Ben. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.