What Camera ?

[dogcop]

Good morning Blue Room

 

At our church we are currently looking at purchasing a new camera which must fulfill the following criteria,

 

1/ Capable of providing excellent quality pictures for live feed to projector for services - currently 200 people.

 

2/ Record facility - because we will be uploading services to web

 

3/ Capable of receiving external sound source (pref XLR)

 

4/ Robust enough for outside work for recording video clips and vox pops for later editing on premiere.

 

5/ Bundle to include - external mic, flightcase + tripod

 

A colleague at work has suggested this as a suitable camera. He is a professional cameraman in our organisation.

 

Whilst budget is always an issue I was wondering if there are any cameras out on the market around the £1500 mark that will do what this camera does - to an equivalent standard - or maybe better.

 

There are so many products on the market that it is difficult to make an informed choice. Hence the reason I have come here for some feedback on the products that you have used that fit into our budget of 2k for the whole bundle (camera, tripod, external mic etc)

 

Thankyou for your help

 

kind regards

 

Andy

[mi-ul]

2/ Record facility - because we will be uploading services to web

 

In this case, the camera you linked to may not be the best solution. It's a DV (tape) camera so would require real time capture before you can upload to the web. On the other hand, being DV probably means it's better than most others in it's price bracket.

 

At the cheaper end (higher d0mestic end), it only seems to be DV cameras that have audio in. Although some sony's do seem to have their own special sony connection

 

Mi-ul

[Pete McCrea]

I'd suggest the likes of the Sony HVRZ1e. Ticks all the boxes, but is MiniDV so will require real time capture. Combined with Final Cut on a Mac (or something on a PC) it would then enable you to capture and edit material to a near Broadcast quality.

[dunk_1984]

1/ Capable of providing excellent quality pictures for live feed to projector for services - currently 200 people.

 

This is the issue requirement. Most cameras if not all in this budget will output on composite. So although the recording will be of a high quality, the live output won't be.

[J Pearce]

Composite can provide a more than decent image, and many cameras will output svid, which is a bit of a step up.

[MarkPAman]

We have a couple of the Cannon XM2s at work which will do most of what you want.

 

The MA300 will give you XLR inputs if that's important to you.

 

I've often used Sony ECM MS907 with good results when the built in mic is not appropriate, though I don't do outside much and imagine wind noise would be a problem.

 

The kit is completed with tripods & larger batteries (also from CPC IIRC)

[GRisdale]

For that kind of budget you'll inevitably need to settle for DV, but I would imagine that it would be perfectly fine for your purposes and I don't see why a composite output would be a major problem in this application (it was good enough for BBC OB until not all that long ago).

 

You can't go far wrong with a DVX100 - very popular with small production companies before HD started taking over the world and has been to the four corners of the Earth (including up some of the world's tallest mountains, so it should be able to deal with the harsh church yard environment). I currently use the newer HVX200 (very similar, but solid state HD recording).

 

If realtime capture is a major problem you could look at a Firestore DV recorder, though I can't really see why it would be a problem for you...

 

By the way, you can get a better deal here, bringing the DVX to within your budget with room for a few more bits. Definately drop them an email to get a proper quotation and tell them that you're getting quotes from elsewhere - prices can drop a good bit below the web lists.

 

Gareth.

[dunk_1984]

Composite can provide a more than decent image, and many cameras will output svid, which is a bit of a step up.

 

I didn't say it wasn't, but the OP was after Excellent....

[paulears]

You cannot describe video quality by subjective words like excelent, or OK. My OK could be your excellent, but your OK could be my unacceptable. In this situation the real test is the projector. How good is that? If the projector is of a certain quality, then whatever this quality actually is is the benchmark. So buying a camera that cannot do it justice is a poor choice. Composite, as has been said, can actually be quite useful from the quality aspect. y/c is better, component better still if you are looking at analogue distribution. SDI if you have a digital chain again is a useful system.

 

The real sort of issues you should look at are what kind of picture will you get. So a 1/3" single CCD is not so good as 3 x 1/3", but then there are other size CCDs. The difference between a 3 x 2/3" camera and a 1 x 1/3" image is obvious even when distributed by composite - so there is plenty of choice.

 

My own thoughts are to do with how the chosen camera is operated. If you are going to do this stuff live you need stability and a decent zoom. So I'd look at things like how far the camera is away from the chosen source - will it be wide enough, but tight enough to get the real closeups? Buying a remote for the zoom is essential, and they are VERY expensive - but being able to work it from the rear is pretty important for long sessions. Can the op use the little viewfinder/pull out? Can you focus using the colour monitor - some are so horrible as to be almost useless. Focus - is it a real lens with a manual focus or is it a continually spinning ring that has little feedback, and no way to read of a distance? This one is mechanical, but hasn't got (from info I've read) good contro of slow zoom - so no very slow creeps.

 

A decent tripod and head that will stay where it is put, doesn't wobble and can be locked off without jolting the image is also a must have. For even a light weight camcorder, this may well add another £500 to the bill.

 

I'd suggest that even a cheap camcorder will provide pretty decent images, even fed via a single composite feeder to the projector - IF you have plenty of light, and a solid enough support for it.

 

The camera you are looking at is one of loads, but is full of gadgets you may never use, and isn't the simplest to connect up to the outside world. It does seem to have a reputation for decent HD quality - but is that what you are interested in? Editing and transferring HD is always more time consuming than SD.

[dogcop]

Thankyou all for your replies gentlemen - very helpful and informative.

 

Paul, I fully appreciate your comments about the term "excellent" being subjective, and, yes I totally agree, making my 1st criteria quite unhelpul.

I know what I was trying to say - but even now thinking about it, I cannot put into words exactly what I mean. The projector we have is here

 

Any other ideas please keep them coming

 

regards

andy

[Colin in the UK]

Have a look at the Sony Biz web site and check out the HVR-HD1000E

 

http://www.sony.co.uk/biz/view/ShowProduct...y=HDVCamcorders

 

Its cheaper than the Panasonic (Sony cameras are usually better than Panasonic, most top broadcasters choose Sony and look at the success of the PD and Z1s etc, so good stable)

 

I have no experience of this model, but you will probably have enough spare cash left over to get all the bits you want.

 

Hope this helps.

[dogcop]

Will any of the cameras suggested on this post have an RGB or RCA out as a good link to our graphics switcher.

Thanks

Andy

[Ravenrigger]

Ideally you need to look at the sony HVR series as they record onto a memory card and output in a web format on request.

 

Andy

 

[gnomatron]

Paul, I'm not so sure about the remote zoom being "essential" - they're very useful and certainly desirable but given the cost/benefit ratio and the budget available I don't think it's essential in this case.

 

You're spot on about the tripod, however, you'll need a good one and they start at somewhere in the 350-400 region and go up. This manfrotto one is probably one of the cheapest ones you'd get away with. Bags/cases are pretty expensive too, you're probably looking at £100 for a decent one, and spending 200 odd on a mic isn't unreasonable either.

 

I'd second the XM2 as a good camera, by the way, although it doesn't have XLR ins though as I recall there is an attachement for this; although if second hand isn't a worry, if you could find a Sony PD150 or PD170, or a canon XL1 or XL2 in good nick then they're pretty good bits of kit. Second hand can be a false economy though as you're never sure how much use the camera has had and repairs can be VERY expensive. The DVX100 that was recommended is an excellent camera too.

[grahamdking]

Have a look at the Sony Biz web site and check out the HVR-HD1000E

 

http://www.sony.co.uk/biz/view/ShowProduct...y=HDVCamcorders

 

Its cheaper than the Panasonic (Sony cameras are usually better than Panasonic, most top broadcasters choose Sony and look at the success of the PD and Z1s etc, so good stable)

 

I have no experience of this model, but you will probably have enough spare cash left over to get all the bits you want.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Personally I think this camera is a piece of crap.

Yes it is HD, but that is the only thing going for it.

My problems with it are:

Tiny touchscreen (which you have to use to adjust most settings)

Feels incredibly light (as if empty).

Gives a poor quality image (yes its HD, but it just looks terrible)

It is poorly made, I have snapped off the composite out on one of these my old school had.

Only has a minijack input.

 

I could go on.

 

Bassically, don't get it. A good quality standard def camera like the panasonics suggested are much nicer, and produce a better image.

I agree Colin, Sony do make some very nice cameras. I very regularly use a Z1 and couldn't recommend it enough for a job like the one described here. Shame about the price tag.

 

 

I have also used the panasonics suggested (or at least very similar looking models) and think they would do very well for your need. Great cameras.

Definatly get a good quality tripod. You should be able to find a second hand manfrotto one on ebay or something.

 

HTH

 

Graham