Cheap flood?

[SceneMaster]

I totally agree with you P. Funk. I don't light every event only the decent ones such as the big performaces and concerts but as I am head of the lighting team and the one with the most experience I usally light the exams but if I get any more problems with this perticular group which are the only group I have had problems with and the other groups have been very greatful for my time and equipment, I will walk out and leave them to get on witn it and they can do it themselves. (As I don't think the rest of the lighting team will want to take over!!!)

[P. Funk]

especially if you're spending money on them...

 

are you sure you cant get the school to buy them? in our drama dept, they refund all of us for anything we buy as long as its to do with the production :blink:

 

 

oh yes, and call me Jon :P

[paulears]

A couple of points

 

You mention talking to the examiner about hints for the future - don't bank on it. I don't know what board your exam is being run by, but I've been Principal Examiner for Edexcel for a while (just given up this year) and it is 100% forbidden for any of the examiners to offer any advice - they are even banned from participating in forums like this, because they get accused of 'helping' candidates. Daft, I know, but the board work on the principal that any information must be given to all candidates, not just a select few. Your examiner may be the sort to bend the rules, but many won't - they need their job too much.

 

I reckon you need to check what extra marks you will get for spending the money - don't forget that the mark scheme is very generalised and often deliberately written to stop those schools with good kit getting better marks than those with b*gger all, like you seem to have. The end result is usually all that matters.

 

For what it's worth - we have some fixtures exactly the same looking as the ones you have linked to, and apart from the comments everyone else has sensibly made, the damn things overheat terribly, as they are designed for outside use. In particular, the heat seems to wreck the spring contacts, and as they are well sealed, the arcing can't be heard, making them get worse and worse. Above all, the light quality from these type of things is dreadful - they don't blend well with others, have a strong hotspot, melt the gel etc etc etc.

 

given the choice of a couple of wide angle fresnels or a whole load of these things, I'd have the proper stage light instead.

 

One suggestion - if you simply need to light a large area with something nice (and cheap) buy a load of low voltage fittings (about 20), series them up and run off the mains - et voila, not quite a digital light curtain, but damn effective!

[SceneMaster]

I was going to ask the examiner what I need to do (as I am half Technicle drama and half drama student) for the exam and the year 10 performance. Not hints on how to do it just what I need to do for example with the year 10 production do I opperate lights or act in the performance I don't mind but my teacher is so incompitant to ring her examiners that she said that I could ask the examiner over lunch. Plus I am not spending money so that I can get into the exam to do the lighting I am spending the money for myself as a cheap fix for one gig aswell as this exam which at the moment has 12 par56s which the school own which is hardly exam material considering the students desire for there lights. I am also using some borrowed frensels which is a start but not ideal and I jsut need some flood powre which is cheap on a short not long term scale so surely what I am doing is OK and I may even be paid (so the cost won't be that bad) as I was last year for my time (although I would not bank on it!!! :P . but hey)

 

Thanks

 

Paulears I may need to PM you some time about Edexcel Drama aas this is what I am doing if this is OK. I persum you were Principal Examiner for Edexcel in drama?

[kalmatthew]

(money is the issue as I would rather save up and buy expensive movers and dimmer packs.)

Slightly :P but neededs to be said IMHO

 

Go for the dimmer sure but for a school I dont belive that movers are really worth it. Not only are they expensive to maintain/controll (£80 a lamp:o). They are also more complex to use. Once you have a very large number of generics then maybe go for a mover but dont sacrafice generics for movers. Rember at a school the choice of what equpment is yous, your decison may affect the tech team for 5 or ten years. You may be capable of using a mover but will the next person? or the one after that?

 

hth

Kal

[robloxley]

Sorry for any spelling mistakes.

Using the spell checker would be one solution...!

[Ike]

...safty chain side of things only needs a zip tie...The only problem is the time factor with these and so probley won't be pat tested. (please don't shoot me)!

If by zip tie you mean the plastic cable ties I would be carefull as the amount of heat comming off the back of a flood will melt and possibly even set fire to one rather quickly. They also don't like going round sharp corners and you should be carefull of the shockloading on them which can be a lot higher than you might think.

 

As for doing a PAT I wouldn't have thought taking insulation and cpc resistance readings would be much use assuming you are using new cable however I would say getting someone competant to do a visual inspection would be a good idea.

[Brian]

and the safty chain side of things only needs a zip tie

I have never seen a load rated tyrap (I assume you mean that when you say zip tie).

[SceneMaster]

Movers and dimmers for me kalmatthew not the school athought probely not the movers yet as I defintly need more dimmers and can't afford movers yet. The schools gear is there problem I only design and opperate. (and advise on new equipment but my dission is not final)

[merlin24]

and the safty chain side of things only needs a zip tie.

Errrrrr No.

[Tomo]

Sheesh, you really said that scenemaster!??

 

Even at room temp a zip tie is not strong enough to take the load - they are designed to hold cables up, not catch a falling object.

 

Buy some proper safety chains for gawd's sake - they're about 2 quid each for the 5kg ones you'd need. Heck, 35kg ones are only a fiver.

 

(5kg safety bond £1.85 +VAT from Whitelight, who probably aren't the cheapest)

[SceneMaster]

Considering the P56 and floods when used at the church are on a stand 1m high of the ground pointing upwards so they are floor cans effectivly. They are in a cordoned of area and no one one would go any where near them surely a zip tie is ok for this. The zip tie is only there to protect the lights from falling the 1m. At school they will be used with a clamp and chain as normal. The zip ties used are heavy duty used for holding bits of staging together not really your common cable tie and have been used to scure on scafolding for extra bonding aswell as the metal clips (please do not discuss this as it was not me). On the fire side on things the zip ties are to the side of the light are fire ristant plastic so this is not a problem.

 

How stupid do you think I am I would never even consider riging ANY light or piece of gear which was above 1m in hight without a metal safty bond either a chain or a wire and most of my gear used the 64kg type safty chains, as I feel this is the only way to be safe on the health and safty side of things. Anyway this is a little of topic and I feel there has been some great mis understanding by some people considering you don't know the situation the lights are being used. Although this may be due to lack of explaning on my part. ZIP TIES ARE NOT SAFETY BONDS AND I KNOW THIS AND THIS IS NOT WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY.

 

Anyway I have come to the opinon that these flood will not suite my situation as they only have a 40 degree tilt on them thanks for your advice guys. :P

[Dave]

Why do you think you need a secondary suspension (of any sort) on these floods?

 

The correct approach is to carry out a risk assessment of the situation. If this concludes that the chance of a lantern falling is extremely remote, then no further action is required.

 

And if the rigging of the lanterns is such that the chance of one falling is NOT extremely remote, then I would suggest more attention should be given to the rigging.

 

Furthermore, of course, the result of the risk assessment is also determined by the level of potential injury. In the case of a lantern only 1m off the ground in a cordoned-off area, the chance of a falling lantern causing any injury, let alone a serious or fatal one, is also very low.

 

As I may have stated before, there are no special laws that mandate secondary suspensions on theatrical lanterns. The only exception is if your licensing conditions require it (and in venues where that is the case, it's normally only when lanterns are above people's heads).

 

Dave.

[Tomo]

Pretty much my point.

 

If your risk assessment says you don't need a safety chain, that's one thing.

But if it says you need one, then you NEED one.

 

A cable tie is neither, and actually gives the impression that you thought it might fall, but without the assurance that you did something serious about reducing the risk.

 

In other words, EXTREMELY bad practice.

 

The whole point of risk assessments is showing that you thought about the risks, and did everything reasonably practical to reduce them.

 

As far as I'm concerned, anything hanging needs a safety chain, unless it's so low down that it would have hit the floor before the chain caught it, but that's just me because I'm paranoid.

You might decide that 1m above the ground and cordoned off is sufficiently safe already, and so don't require a safety chain - fair enough, you know the particular situation and I don't - but never do something that implies risk but does not reduce it.

 

Did I phrase that better?

[SceneMaster]

mmm...

 

Good point about risk assessment I see your point that the fact that I am bothering to use a zip tie show that there must be some risk in my mind. There is no risk so I surpose it must be the fact of habbit that I ALWAYS have a secondary attachment of some sort whether a safty chain/bond or in this case a zip tie which clearly there is no need for one. Firstly I thought there was laws saying there has to be secondary attachments for lights above peoples heads under health and safety? Also risk assessment has to be done for every gig dosn't it? And this is just the process of checking for known risks and doing somthing about it I once heard that even edges of a rug had to be gaffaed down on satge once at school!!! Which is a bit OTT as no one in there right mind would be able to trip over it (unless drunk!!!)