multi pa

[shockers]

Hi all,

 

Been watching but not posted for quite a while. Still think you guys know what your talking about so need a bit of help if possible.

 

I have been singing big band/ swing for quite some time, and have managed to upgrade most of the equipment I have, to a reasonable standard,

(without going bankrupt)!, but have never changed my speakers....up 'til now.

 

I use a mix wizard, with qsc plx amps, dbx graphic & driverack, and shure beta 58 slx radio....dont really want to add what the speakers are cause I know I'll get grief......they're Peavey ul115's with the big 18" low riders. I have actually managed to eq them, with the help of my very talented nephew, to sound ok, but now want to change to something better. (I know, anything, don't keep going on).

 

My choices that keep going round & round are d&b, martin, nexo and the new bose system.

 

My price range is 4-5k, but what I need is, a multi pa! It has to be able to be set up v quickly for weddings, when you only have a 40 min turnaround, be able to play well to 15 people in a restaurant or to 500 in a marquee!!

 

Your thoughts please, oh and forgeot to mention often play mr dj as well, or at least press play, but don't dress up, and you can hear when I announce the buffet!!** laughs out loud **

[Matt Riley]

Looking at your existing equipment config, the issues with Dnb is that, while you could pick up a second hand C6 rig which would get very close to being what you want it would make your driverack and PLX amp redundant, as you have to use D&Bs amps with their speakers.

 

If I were you, my shortlist to listen to would include Martin blackline F12, EM acoustics EMS 121, EX sx300, and some of the Turbosound stuff (perhaps TQ445), bearing in mind that the TXD range might be a bit too cheap for this application.

 

If you wanted to sell the driverack and amp I'd listen to active, powered systems or self contained 'black box' systems like DnB C6, Q7, and E12, Turbo NuQ, QSC speakers, EAW NT series.

 

The big question tho is do you want subs with that sir? If so, then I may have to reassess those suggestions given the budget.

 

HTH,

 

M

[johndenim]

they're Peavey ul115's with the big 18" low riders. I have actually managed to eq them, with the help of my very talented nephew, to sound ok, but now want to change to something better. (I know, anything, don't keep going on).

 

Don't be too harsh on your cabs, The UL series are not that bad, a definate improvement on the hisys range.

 

So your after cabs that are suited to a v small audience to a medium one.

I too may be inclined to go powered.

With a 5k budget I would recommend maybe nexo, logic systems, or the new tt system from rcf.

 

Is it vocals and playback or do you have a band?

 

John Denim.

[dunk_1984]

If I were you, my shortlist to listen to would include Martin blackline F12, EM acoustics EMS 121, EX sx300, and some of the Turbosound stuff (perhaps TQ445), bearing in mind that the TXD range might be a bit too cheap for this application.

 

F12's were my thought as well, probably 4 of for the money and extended coverage.

 

445's would be another ideal box, however are as good as not available second hand, and would probably be too expensive new.

 

If you wanted to sell the driverack and amp I'd listen to active, powered systems or self contained 'black box' systems like DnB C6, Q7, and E12, Turbo NuQ, QSC speakers, EAW NT series.

 

Agreed, you could look to sell the amps and Xover/distribution. Replaced with something like the XTI 4000's with in built DSP.

 

The big question tho is do you want subs with that sir? If so, then I may have to reassess those suggestions given the budget.

 

If this is for anything more than a vocal PA, with something like the F12's would be a definite plus. Something like the Turbo TSE 118's or Martin S18's should fit in the budget.

 

Alternatively the Thomann 2x18's reflex subs sound good for the money with the F12's. However obviously given their size and weight, may not be an ideal cab if you go out on your own.

 

Now where's Mr. Beech? this is his territory.

[shockers]

Yes I had hoped to have rob's input. I had been leaning towards, martin w3/w8c? For £4k I can get the w3's and ws2a's I think, and carry on using the qsc amps. Would you suggest a controller, or would they be ok on their own?

 

Having talked to Phil at wigwam, he was leaning me towards d&b which I would like, as they are easily set up with their amps, but £8k new is just far too much. Not sure what I think about buying second hand.

 

Don't mind selling whatever, the 2 dbx parts can go, and speakers will go, amps I know will sell well, if options dictate.

 

Mainly playing minidisc backing, but I like the full sound of the low end in big band, it should be trying to create 30 blokes, playing everything from a triangle to a bass sax. That being said if I do have to play with a band, the halls have their own pa's e.g. just been playing in Blackpool Tower ballroom with their in house turbosound, sounded good with 8 piece band, but accoustics quite good in their I think!

 

Don't forget must be able to play disco tracks, and possibly band if neccesary, hence multi pa post!!

 

\I've trying to buy now for 12 months, and am fed up trying to make a decision, and not getting anywhere! What do you think?

[thewhirlwind]

Looking at your existing equipment config, the issues with Dnb is that, while you could pick up a second hand C6 rig which would get very close to being what you want it would make your driverack and PLX amp redundant, as you have to use D&Bs amps with their speakers.

 

If I were you, my shortlist to listen to would include Martin blackline F12, EM acoustics EMS 121, EX sx300, and some of the Turbosound stuff (perhaps TQ445), bearing in mind that the TXD range might be a bit too cheap for this application.

 

If you wanted to sell the driverack and amp I'd listen to active, powered systems or self contained 'black box' systems like DnB C6, Q7, and E12, Turbo NuQ, QSC speakers, EAW NT series.

 

The big question tho is do you want subs with that sir? If so, then I may have to reassess those suggestions given the budget.

 

HTH,

 

M

 

not too sure I would go with ev sx300's.I've just got a pair of sxa360's (active) and although they go quite loud they are a bit harsh in the highs and have nowhere near the clarity of my EAW jfx290's.Although I don't have the experience of some on here I would think you could get better than Ev sx300's for a £4-5k budget.I'm just gonna use them as monitors and emergency back up in case an amp or speaker breaks down.

I think it also depends to some degree on the performer.Someone said of my EAW's that they're not very forgiving,which is fine for me as I want as an exact a reproduction of what's going in to come out,but I think for some people a bit of colouration can help their sound.

I'm getting some EAW NT's very shortly and I'm hoping they are gonna live up to their reputation.

[dbuckley]

A fair bump up from the SX300s is the EV x-array series, which a local company uses a lot, and I heard them just a couple of weeks ago with a "small" big band, and they handled the duties with dignity. I've also heard them go really loud, and they do that, too. A lot of the EV stuff shouts rather to much for my ears, the I've yet to hear the x-array sound harsh. Dont know much about these boxes, I'm afraid, other than I like what they do, and they are passive boxes needing a normal amp rack and crossover or loudspeaker manager.

[Bobbsy]

A local theatre here has an X-array installation and it sounds very nice indeed (this coming from a guy with an anti EV bias too). They're used for a wide range of material from traditional musical theatre right up to rock.

 

However, unless there's a small version I haven't encountered, I think they'd fail the quick/easy set up test--certainly the ones here are large and heavy!

 

D and B would also be my first choice if the budget could stretch but it does seem a bit far out the running.

 

Frankly, I think the OP's idea of the Martin kit may well be on the right track. What I've heard of their stuff it seems to fit the bill in sonic terms and it's darn good bang for the buck in terms of size, weight, cost and efficiency. Rob knows the kit much better than I so I'll leave it to him to go into the details.

 

Bob

[revbobuk]

Just another name - but you asked for easy to set up and versatile - how about the fohhn xperience systems? I'm not experienced (see what I did there?) enough myself to recommend them, but they seem to be in the right ballpark?

[Matt Riley]

WRT the W3s, we've got them, and they sound very good, but are big and heavy and not that suited to the smaller venues or being put on stands. Also a W3 rig is active, so needs 2 amp channels per side for the tops, so with subs might be a bit much.

 

If you do use them tho, something like your existing driverack (assuming it's the DR260, not the DRPA) would do absolutely fine for crossover functions. We use BSS minidrives on ours for reference.

 

WRT the subs question, I'd be tempted to go for a single good sub as a compromise - perhaps 2 D&B c6 tops and a single C7 sub might be getting very close to your requirements, or alternatively 2 EMS121 and a single i12 or EMS215 sub.

 

The reason I gave you such a big list of kit was because you really, really need to start getting some demos and letting your ears decide. I can give you the names of at least 25 different types of tops which would do exactly what you want, and relatively well, but the only way you can be sure I'm not just some spotty kid who's never heard any of this kit is by trying out the rigs.

 

Happy PA hunting!

 

M

[Trunker]

If you after ease to set up, try something like a HK Audio Deacon rig This will do the job for you and then you can sell your amps to recoup some of the cost.

[PoppaDom]

Following what others have said I would also recommend the EM acoustics equipment. It's very nice sounding, budget concious and British Built.

 

The EM121's offer a good coverage and SPL and can even be purchased in a 'W' version with a wider horn config.

 

Previously someone has suggested using a single i12 with these. I would avoid this as you would be left with a void in your frequency response as the i12 would not meet the 121's.

 

The EMS215 would be a much better choice or examine the EM152 which is also a stunning cabinet with a lower end LF response.

 

Phil Hurley at Stage Sound Services in Cardiff hire all the boxes as do Autograph...Well worth demo'ing!

 

Or contact EM themselves, they are very helpful!

 

 

And for the record I have no affiliation I am just a particular fan of a range that combines excellent pricing with great results using any amplifier!

 

 

Poppadom

[BobTheSound]

Might I suggest a less expensive alternative in the form of Shermann. It would be less expensive cos they sell direct on their pro stuff at least they did to me. I have the R118B in my stock which is just superb and recently added the MRL401 which is a three way passive cab with a 12", 6" and a 1". Set-up time once your gear is next to the stage is 6-7 minutes and I don't need any help lifting the 401 as its only 20kgs. If you have the amps and crossover this would be my recomendation at much less then £4k including the vat for the set of four cabs and the extension poles. I beleive Phil Hurley at Stage Sound Services also has both these models in his Shermann stock.

[shockers]

Thanks for the Shermann tip. I've just called them and for the 2 subs and 3way tops and poles its £3.7k. Not a million miles away from Martin.

I know nothing about Shermann, but will go and have a listen. Any background from anyone comparing the 2? (Martin v Shermann).

[Matt Riley]

Shermann certainly don't make bad sounding boxes. I've heard the MRL 4 and 401 in a couple of different configs and they sound alright. Certainly better than the Peavey's you've got, but I reckon, to my ears, the EM 121 is better sounding and louder, as is C6 and martin w3. Tho that might just be the rigs I heard being set up in a not optimum way. In the end you've got to have a listen and see which one sounds nicest to you.

 

M