julieleanne Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 hi all, I would like to nknow if anyone has experiences with the Crown PCC-160 mics... I would like to specifically know if they pick up floor noise (footsteps, shuffles etc) on the stage during plays etc? I have just started working for a Amdram here in Australia. cheers, Julie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Welcome, both to the Blue Room and to wonderful world of Amdram! Yes, lots of us in here have used PCC160s quite a lot, as well as cheaper alternatives. To answer your specific question, yes foot noise can be a problem and most users recommend isolating the mic from the floor with some form of soft rubber. In the past I've suggested cutting out the base shape from old (soft) mouse mats...that seems to work as well as anything. There are quite a few existing topics about the use of boundary mics. If you enter PCC160 in the search box you get when you click the "Search" button in the menu bar above, you'll get lots of info but the most recent topic is HERE but, as I say, there are lots of others. Cheers, Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shez Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 I've got a couple that I use now and again. The mic element inside the casing has a bit of physical decoupling to minimise any mechanical transmission of noise to it. The last time I tried just lifting it on & off the surface of the stage, the difference was negligible. What I think people sometimes forget is that foot steps make acoustic noise and the mic will pick that up alongside the voices - short of everyone wearing soft soles, there's not much that can be done about that. Raising it off the surface of the stage also affects how well it works as a boundary mic - it needs to be sat on a large surface to effectively utilise the boundary effect up to a sensibly high frequency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cedd Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Concert Systems (Manchester) have a pair listed on their website. I bought a pair from them a couple of weeks ago, though am still waiting for details of dispatch. The actual units are in the US and concert systems are acting as the brokers. I can't remeber if I bought the last 2. Won't reccomend them until mine turn up though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solstace Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Hi and welcome! Just wanted to pipe up and say I've had some good positive experiences with these mics in the shows I've used them for. In fact I'd recommend them more than shotgun or other flown mics for the same purpose. Like others here, I've found foot-noise and the rustling of clothing to be a problem - but that same limitation would be true of any "distant" mic trying to pick up one source out of a collection of others (Wanted or not). Sound-wise, I've had good results with them placed either directly onto the stage surface or raised less than 1" on thin rubber or foam mats to isolate mechanical noise - in all cases make sure it doesn't get trodden on or kicked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 PCC160s are specifically designed not to pick up mechanically coupled noise, and as Shez notes above, and I will confirm, it works in practice. But PCCs do pick up all the acoustic noise of people moving, and if your actors project less than well (ie you've got the PCCs turned up) then you do get a lot of stage noise, especially cloppy shoes. Having said that, despite the drawbacks, they are still by some way my favorite stage mic. For several shows I rigged both short shots and PCC160s, and the PCCs never lost the comparison. The other thing about the PCCs is that they are hard as nails; the manual claims something along the lines that they cabn be danced upon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cedd Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 I've seen a pair that have been tapdanced on and can quite confidently say they sounded just as good and despite a few scuffs, held up remarkably well. They aren't called "landmines" in my parts for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob098 Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 I've seen a pair that have been tapdanced on and can quite confidently say they sounded just as good and despite a few scuffs, held up remarkably well. They aren't called "landmines" in my parts for nothing. I'm not so sure I agree about the dance-proof claims. While the mic is as hard as nails the input connector which is some sort of mini XLR is connected floating at one end and would get snapped off. I toured a musical theatre production with 3 of these. I had to rebuild the mini XLR a couple of times, and you can't just replace it to something more standard. Performance wise, I found that they worked great....but only in some venues. In other venues they were next to useless. It all depended on the quietness of the stage surface and the venues acoustics / FOH speaker position relative to the mics (positioned on the front down stage edge of the stage) We ditched them in the end due to their hit/miss nature and opted to lav radio mic everyone. Which is also a pain because you have to note cast members entrances/exits as opposed to knowing you have a miked live stage for dialogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmyP1955 Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 They can be quite useful, or not - it depends on the situation. If you have a chorus in a "thick and lively" room and need to add a bit of definition, they work a treat. If you have an exceedingly wimpy actress located upstage left, and you crank up the downstage left mic, you may find that you pick up the actress, but also the fan in the dimmer rack that's located 30% farther away, offstage right. Other scenarios will be somewhere in between these two. They are well worth having, but they canna break the laws of physics, captn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cedd Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 They are well worth having, but they canna break the laws of physics, captn.+1 to that Rob, If you had a situation where you ended up with lav mics on individuals, I'd probably say that PCC's were never going to cut it. You just can't get the same performance from them. They are very good at picking up a chorus line singing, and I tend to use mine in conjunction with a set of 3 hanging AKG CK33's. They work very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyW69 Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 I use all varieties of crown pcc 130 170 160, generally good, I believe there is an ideal separation distance to avoid phase problems, bearing in mind I use them I should probably know that! The mini XLR leads are available from cpc for less than £3 so worth having some spares Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 I believe there is an ideal separation distance to avoid phase problems, bearing in mind I use them I should probably know that! The standard rule of thumb is that microphones should be 3 times as far apart as the distance to the sound source. However, this is hard to sort out with PCC mics used on the edge of the stage, especially since the distance is constantly varying and they are often trying to pick up fairly distant performers. Purists will also point out that the rule isn't exactly accurate when you move to cardioid rather than omni patterns but it's close enough to be going on with. The 3:1 rule was designed to try and get a 9dB separation between mics (the minimum to avoid comb filtering issues) and I generally find it's better to space the mics closer than the rule says but achieve this separation by mixing mics up and down rather than relying on distance. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 I'm not so sure I agree about the dance-proof claims. While the mic is as hard as nails the input connector which is some sort of mini XLR is connected floating at one end and would get snapped off. I toured a musical theatre production with 3 of these. I had to rebuild the mini XLR a couple of times, and you can't just replace it to something more standard. Indeed the mini XLR is a rubbish connector, doesn't lock properly and disentigrates if you look at it! I have seen PCC's retrofitted with standard 3pin XLR plugs. Obviouly not as compact, but the connector sits flat on the floor, so is much more robust. The ones I saw used standard Neutrik NC3MX cable plugs, using just the silver end bit of the plug. He had to file some of the shell down to fit half the shell inside the PCC, then epoxyed it in place. The result is very tidy. It probably wouldn't work so well with the current Neutrik MXX plugs as they flare out more in the middle. Anyway, the mics themselves are a resonable compromise sound wise and seem to have become a bit of an industry standard. Has anyone tried the new version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shez Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Has anyone tried the new version?Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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